THE BLACK HAND FORUM

SonnyBlackstein wrote:

johnny_scootch wrote:You have all those guys that waited for years and years to get made and only certain number were allowed in some guys weren't sure if the books would get closed for another 20 years so they wanted all the best recruits to be initiated maybe possibly even if that means that guy went with other people. It wasn't ALL about greed in the old days like today.

And these guys fight over associates all the time especially the big earners.

LCN is first and foremost a business. The notion that a top earning/work associate would get transferred from one crew/made guy to another, let alone another family, just so he could get his button, is, well, bullshit.
These selfish pricks kill, rape and maime for a dollar and suddenly they're going to give up a top earner, to another family no less, out of the goodness of their own heart?

Guys fight like shit at sitdowns for top associates.
Now they're just giving them away?

Guys get transferred but only in rare cases and mostly because of serious disputes. IE Gravano or Gallo.

There's this whole nostalgic notion that 'back in the day' these guys were good guys with codes of honour and nobility. It's bullshit.
You know what 'honour' these guys had 'back in the day'? The guy Casso ended up with in the end? Christie Tic? Was a fucking rapist.

Not all about money? That's all it's ever been about.

And you've kind of contradicted yourself above. You start off saying they wanted the best guys to get made even if it meant going with someone else, and you've closed off by saying these guys fight over associates all the time.
Which one is it, they giving them away, or fighting over them?

And I don't mean any offence if I sound abrupt.

SonnyBlackstein wrote:

johnny_scootch wrote:You have all those guys that waited for years and years to get made and only certain number were allowed in some guys weren't sure if the books would get closed for another 20 years so they wanted all the best recruits to be initiated maybe possibly even if that means that guy went with other people. It wasn't ALL about greed in the old days like today.

And these guys fight over associates all the time especially the big earners.

LCN is first and foremost a business. The notion that a top earning/work associate would get transferred from one crew/made guy to another, let alone another family, just so he could get his button, is, well, bullshit.
These selfish pricks kill, rape and maime for a dollar and suddenly they're going to give up a top earner, to another family no less, out of the goodness of their own heart?

Guys fight like shit at sitdowns for top associates.
Now they're just giving them away?

Guys get transferred but only in rare cases and mostly because of serious disputes. IE Gravano or Gallo.

There's this whole nostalgic notion that 'back in the day' these guys were good guys with codes of honour and nobility. It's bullshit.
You know what 'honour' these guys had 'back in the day'? The guy Casso ended up with in the end? Christie Tic? Was a fucking rapist.

Not all about money? That's all it's ever been about.

And you've kind of contradicted yourself above. You start off saying they wanted the best guys to get made even if it meant going with someone else, and you've closed off by saying these guys fight over associates all the time.
Which one is it, they giving them away, or fighting over them?

And I don't mean any offence if I sound abrupt.

johnny_scootch wrote:You have all those guys that waited for years and years to get made and only certain number were allowed in some guys weren't sure if the books would get closed for another 20 years so they wanted all the best recruits to be initiated maybe possibly even if that means that guy went with other people. It wasn't ALL about greed in the old days like today.

And these guys fight over associates all the time especially the big earners.

B. wrote:

johnny_scootch wrote:

B. wrote:He claims that when the books opened in the 1970s each of the families met with him to try to recruit him as a made member which anyone with even a basic knowledge of mob protocol knows is bullshit. He made it sound like he was a top high school football star being recruited by colleges.

I wouldn't be so quick to write this scenario off as total bullshit. Things aren't always black and white when it comes to recruitment. Depending on the circumstances Casso wouldn't be the first guy to pick where he landed.

People are close to guys from multiple families and transfers are possible based on the circumstance, sure, but let us know if you have any examples of a situation like Carlo/Casso described where multiple families supposedly sat down with Casso and tried to convince him to join them like some kind of top quarterback prospect. These aren't college football teams, these are crime families who were opening the books for the first time in 20 years and had hundreds of potential recruits, all of whom were formally aligned with a certain family/member. They had no reason to humble themselves and compete for a guy no matter what his reputation was, especially when that's not the way the system is set up.

Casso was a major figure in his day, nobody has said otherwise, but Carlo's book is filled with unverifiable hype at best and gutter trash at worst. Regardless of the book, Casso's deal with the government was revoked because he was an untrustworthy CW. They would have loved to have used him much like they did Gravano, Leonetti, etc. but he ruined his deal and credibility. If you have other sources and info, I'm all about checking it out, though.

Thinking the mods should move this to its own topic as this has strayed pretty far from sourced info about Mario Gigante and the Genovese family. I'm not trying to start a fight or anything but the last page or so on here reads like your average GangsterBB thread.

B. wrote:Like Sonny is talking about, other witnesses have been involved in many murders and murder conspiracies and have kept their deals and testified. Massino's deal proved to me that the government will accept anyone and provide any breaks they can. Everyone up through the underboss can always say they were just following orders, but here we finally had the boss who was issuing the orders, who had final say over life and death, and he got brought out at trial and got an incredible deal that actually became an even better deal later on. Cooperating deals are designed to break down the insulation and target the boss, not help him, but here Massino came out on top. Casso would probably be a free man today if he hadn't messed up his cooperation.

I didn't mean to sound so harsh earlier, I want to add... not trying to shut down anyone's take/opinion. It's always cool when we revisit what we think we know about the more well-known guys as we learn more. I do think this would be better off getting split into another topic, though.