THE BLACK HAND FORUM

Giacomo_Vacari wrote:Valachi was not that bright, but was a loyal and devoted follower to Reina. He and the Gap were close. I could be wrong but wasn't Valachi made in the Bonanno family? Had a choice of choosing a family to go into after the war, but chose to stay with Salvatore. Strollo told Joe he was not needed that day, later on It was the Gap that picked him up and told him what happened. The Lucchese were looking out for him, but it was Dominicks advise Valachi took and went with the Luciano family. Vito Genovese and Tony Bender used Joe Valachi as a tool. Case in point, Joe gave a beatdown to a well liked member of Gagliano family, which Lucchese and other members of that family gave Joe the cold shoulder after that. Valachi blamed Bender for the fifteen years he got, but it was his own fault since he did not turn himself in when he should have. The FBI used Valachi, by feeding him information about other families that they gathered from other informants and listening devices around the country.

Ed wrote:I think David C might have been the first to suggest Larry Gallo was an informant (of some kind).

Gallo may have buckled a little under the pressure, like Bill Bonanno during the Banana War. Perhaps Gallo thought he could gain some advantage from the FBI by sharing some Intel. I'm curious how far his cooperation went.

Here are a couple of examples:

http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html ... 1&tab=page

http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html ... 8&tab=page Gallo is t-27

Ed wrote:

Antiliar wrote:

HairyKnuckles wrote:

Cheech wrote:Question. I've seen an old Genovese chart recently and it listed carmine Persicos jr as a button. Was he connected to Genovese at one time? Or was this a Valachi mistake. The chart has stars net to certain people that Valachi identified

Thanks I'll hang up and listen

Cheech

Probably a mistake from Valachi´s part. Could also be that he (or whoever it was who identified Persico) really meant his father, Persico Sr. There are some errors on those charts but nevertheless, they are extremely interesting and first of its kind.

It was a mistake by the Justice Department. They used many informants for info and got some of it wrong, but because the charts were used during the McClellan Hearings where Valachi testified they are associated with him.

Between 1962 and 1963, informants Gregory Scarpa, Alfredo Sanantonio and (likely) Larry Gallo all told the FBI that Carmine Persico was a member of the Colombo Crime Family. (I don’t have the chart in front of me but I don’t think Valachi identified him as a Genovese member.)

But sometime before the Valachi Hearings, an unidentified source told the FBI that Persico had transferred to the Genovese or Gambino Crime Family.(Presumably, collateral damage over the Gallo-Profaci War) So for whatever reason, the FBI decided to go with that (bad) Intel and list Persico as a Genovese member.

The unidentified source could have been a listening device. The FBI may have simply misinterpreted what they heard, or maybe a transfer was considered before the idea was eventually dropped. (The Scarpa files might clarify). If the Intel came from a listening device, it could be the Patriarca bug since he was meddling in the Colombo Crime Family at that time. Nonetheless, it does seem odd the FBI would disregard Intel from three member-informants.

As for Valachi, I agree he should have gone with the Lucchese Crime Family when given the choice. They probably would have looked out for him but perhaps the ball-busting he would have had to endure from his in-laws would have been too much. The history of mental illness in his family may have also helped to cloud his judgment throughout his life.

Antiliar wrote:

HairyKnuckles wrote:

Cheech wrote:Question. I've seen an old Genovese chart recently and it listed carmine Persicos jr as a button. Was he connected to Genovese at one time? Or was this a Valachi mistake. The chart has stars net to certain people that Valachi identified

Thanks I'll hang up and listen

Cheech

Probably a mistake from Valachi´s part. Could also be that he (or whoever it was who identified Persico) really meant his father, Persico Sr. There are some errors on those charts but nevertheless, they are extremely interesting and first of its kind.

It was a mistake by the Justice Department. They used many informants for info and got some of it wrong, but because the charts were used during the McClellan Hearings where Valachi testified they are associated with him.

HairyKnuckles wrote:

Cheech wrote:Question. I've seen an old Genovese chart recently and it listed carmine Persicos jr as a button. Was he connected to Genovese at one time? Or was this a Valachi mistake. The chart has stars net to certain people that Valachi identified

Thanks I'll hang up and listen

Cheech

Probably a mistake from Valachi´s part. Could also be that he (or whoever it was who identified Persico) really meant his father, Persico Sr. There are some errors on those charts but nevertheless, they are extremely interesting and first of its kind.

Cheech wrote:Question. I've seen an old Genovese chart recently and it listed carmine Persicos jr as a button. Was he connected to Genovese at one time? Or was this a Valachi mistake. The chart has stars net to certain people that Valachi identified

Thanks I'll hang up and listen

Cheech

Chris Christie wrote:The Genovese and Lucchese Families shared territory and up until the 70's the FBI had problems figuring out which members belonged to what group in Harlem and the Bronx.