THE BLACK HAND FORUM

OlBlueEyesClub wrote:Yea , I'm not saying he deserved to be murdered , and not in front of his wife and kid , but I was just saying I don't know if he was the innocent victim those NG Outfit docs made him out to be. I mean his own wife testified that International Fiberglass had gotten off the ground with the help of Irwin Weiner and Milwaukee Phil Alderisio. He allowed Lombardo to come in and use the office to just hang out and punch punching bags and that all relationships were amicable until some time in '72. I'm assuming , judging from how Coen puts it , that Seifert basically allowed Weiner , Lombardo , and maybe Alderisio to launder the money they took out of the Teamsters Central Pension Fund into his Fiberglass company. Feds found checks written out to Lombardo from Internationl Fiberglass, all signed by Seifert , which they believed supported that theory. It's also said Seifert hadn't "led a perfect life", but it doesn't get any more specific than that, lol . And that he indeed had an association with the Chicago Outfit, that he sought to get away from , at least. I guess we'd have to get deeper into Seiferts past to really understand if he truly was at one point an aspiring Outfit goombah. But I'm not willing to be the one to assassinate his character right now. But you know how the saying goes , if you make your bed , you have to lie in it.

Anybody that was in business with Phil Alderisio and Lombardo is suspect ,Seifert almost got away the back up shooter got him

Yea , I'm not saying he deserved to be murdered , and not in front of his wife and kid , but I was just saying I don't know if he was the innocent victim those NG Outfit docs made him out to be. I mean his own wife testified that International Fiberglass had gotten off the ground with the help of Irwin Weiner and Milwaukee Phil Alderisio. He allowed Lombardo to come in and use the office to just hang out and punch punching bags and that all relationships were amicable until some time in '72. I'm assuming , judging from how Coen puts it , that Seifert basically allowed Weiner , Lombardo , and maybe Alderisio to launder the money they took out of the Teamsters Central Pension Fund into his Fiberglass company. Feds found checks written out to Lombardo from Internationl Fiberglass, all signed by Seifert , which they believed supported that theory. It's also said Seifert hadn't "led a perfect life", but it doesn't get any more specific than that, lol . And that he indeed had an association with the Chicago Outfit, that he sought to get away from , at least. I guess we'd have to get deeper into Seiferts past to really understand if he truly was at one point an aspiring Outfit goombah. But I'm not willing to be the one to assassinate his character right now. But you know how the saying goes , if you make your bed , you have to lie in it.

I don't know if Seifert really profited from the partnership. He was not completely innocent of wrongdoing but I wouldn't even qualify him as an associate and he certainly didn't deserve to die. Not that anyone does but it's much easier to feel sorry for Seifert than a guy like, say, Butch Petrocelli.

Thanks Slick, and yeah I think that's also mentioned in Family Secrets about Milwaukee Phil. I don't really sympathize with these guys at all , but it's insane how these producers are for these documentary shows, deliberately leaving out huge chunks of a story, to help push their story and create a one-sided, phony image of a victim just because they were the victims of an organized crime group like The Outfit.

That's about the just of it OlBlueEyes. But I believe Seifert's original partner was Milwaukee Phil, and then to a lesser extent Lombardo. When Phil died then it was Lombardo. Seifert even supposedly named one of his sons after Lombardo.

Question about Seifert , maybe you can help answer this Snakes. Okay , so these programs and docs always tend to paint Seifert as an innocent victim , a guy who was being extorted, said enough , went to the cops and then was killed because of it . But reading the Family Secrets book by Jeff Coen , and I'm speaking solely on what the book says , I don't have actual transcripts from the case or anything. But the picture seems to be painted that Seifert actually sought out Lombardo, and accepted the money that Lombardo gave Seifert to help get his fiber glass company back to a profitable state. He once employed Lombardo , and seemed to have little issue of Lombardo using his office to just punch-in so he wouldn't be in violation of his release conditions. I just got the impression from the book that Seifert was himself a bit of an wannabe and at one point welcomed Lombardo's presence in his workplace and life . But that a point came where it maybe wasn't what Seifert expected, and went to the cops to get out of paying Lombardo back whatever Lombardo invested into the fiber glass biz. Is this a more realistic view of things , or is the picture that the documentaries paint of Seifert really the case?

I thought it was actually aleman and butchie who hit Cain?

Torello was boss of Cicero and the lower West Side. He died around the same time as Ralph Pierce. At that time, Ferriola took over Cicero and the western suburbs while Angelo LaPietra took over the South Side/26th Street crew. That territory was formerly run by Frank Caruso and Ralph Pierce.

Amazing post. Thank you.

I had thought Turk Torello was capo of 26th Street crew, coming up under Fifi Buccieri whose crew eventually became the 26th Street crew. Is there a really solid crew/capo lineage chart for the Outfit somewhere? The whole post Taylor Street Crew/Giancana is a bit confusing on how things ended up divding.

Lombardo's crew at this time consisted of:

Frank Schweihs, Joe and Larry Pettit, Marshall Caifano, Albert Frabotta, the Spilotros, Jimmy Cozzo, Joey Hansen, and Irvin Weiner, among others. Weiner wasn't so much a member as a connected bail bondsmen who was involved in a lot of Outfit moneymaking schemes but never got involved with any of the dirty stuff. In fact, Weiner was worried that he may be killed when he, along with Lombardo and Spilotro, were indicted for the Teamsters Pension fund stuff in 1974. Daniel Seifert would be the one who was killed, however.

Thats some awesome info

Funny how a guy named Harder operated a bunch of porn shops. Good info.


Pogo

Awesome info , thanks snakes

I'll get back to the Family Secrets transcripts eventually but I'll switch gears and post some info on Lombardo. This info is culled from an assortment of files I've come into contact with the past few weeks. Additionally, I will use "traditional" LCN terminology when describing some of the Outfit positions in order to make it more understandable to those unfamiliar with the Outfit's structure. I've also accepted that this info is probably going to be plagiarized at some point and posted elsewhere but them's the breaks.

When Sam Battaglia (the imprisoned boss, or capo, of the Western suburbs) died in September, 1973, a new leadership position became open and a meeting was called to hand out his replacement. Marshall Caifano (Outfit "soldier") attended with the impression that he would be given the vacant "capo" spot but it instead went to Joey Lombardo. However, this didn't bother Caifano as Lombardo was a "friend of his." Caifano was also placed under Lombardo, who was now "capo" of the Grand Avenue (near West Side) crew, as Battaglia's old territory in the western suburbs was now controlled by Joey Aiuppa's crew.

In December, 1973, Caifano was present at Rose's Sandwich Shop and expressed hope that Richard Cain (a former cop who doubled as an Outfit mole), whom Caifano had been "hauling around" for some time, would be killed soon. Later that day, Cain was shot and killed in the sandwich shop. Lombardo was the alleged trigger man and was accompanied on the hit by Vincent "The Saint" Inserro.

Around that same time, Lombardo began to take control of the wholesale and retail pornography businesses under his purview. Every two or three days, Lombardo would visit one of his major facilities and instructed the manager not to use the telephone unless it was for the purpose of conducting legitimate business. Lombardo also stressed the need to use pay phones and to avoid home phones because of the likelihood of them being tapped. At this time, Lombardo also began to take over or open several adult book stores and installed peep shows in many of them.

Lombardo received a cut from many of these adult facilities and the proceeds were collected by Caifano for deliverance to Joey on a regular basis.

Robert Harder was an independent owner of many adult bookstores and peep shows and operated without Outfit permission. This made him "number one" on Lombardo's hit list and resulted in Harder's death in September, 1974.

Another competitor was Rubin Sternman, who operated Capitol News, a large wholesale pornography distributor. Lombardo met with Caifano in 1974 and it was decided that Capitol News's main distribution warehouse would be torched. Several months later, a fire destroyed much of the interior of the warehouse.

However, some distributors not controlled by Lombardo were considered off-limits. Lombardo chastised several underlings for setting fire to or vandalizing other book stores or warehouses. One particular incident, involving some young hoodlums busting out some windows, caused Lombardo to become very upset because the victimized establishment was associated with James "Turk" Torello, "capo" of Cicero.

Lombardo's crew were also accomplished killers. One target of theirs was Outfit associate Sam Annerino, aligned with Jimmy Catuara (Outfit soldier operating out of the south suburbs) in the chop shop rackets. The Outfit was concerned because Annerino was ruffling some feathers and, along with Catuara, was engaged in an internal struggle with Albert Tocco over the automobile theft and chop-shop rackets. Lombardo advised everyone to stay away from Annerino and declared that he had made him "number one" on his (Lombardo's) hit parade, pulling all of his killers off of other assignments and sending them after Annerino. Eventually, Lombardo's crew was taken off of Annerino and the Wild Bunch carried out the hit in July, 1977.