by Wiseguy » Mon Aug 29, 2016 9:41 pm
Chris Christie wrote:It's always been debatable and open to interpretation as to what constitutes a functioning organized crime family. Some prefer to argue the merits based on the amount of activity; a continuing traditional hierarchy and some take solstice in membership numbers. Each side has a point. Cities like Pittsburgh and Cleveland do have several made members left allegedly involved in various underworld activity with no functioning organization; while others, still maintaining a hierarchy really aren't up to much (at least on paper). One could argue that the Scranton Family in the 90's with it's one remaining member dash boss Billy D'Elia would have to be considered "functioning," who despite his lack of underlings nor infrastructure was recognized as a power dash representative by the New York Families as well as Philadelphia.
The Mafia hierarchy, while showing a fully formed mafia organization, does not exist on that structure alone. Families are not formed easily and it's not as simple as someone declaring autonomy and putting underlings into mob rank positions. In fact it's essential that the proper biosphere exists for such an entity to form: Italian demographics, criminal economies and political/legal circumstances which allow for such a criminal presence to organize and build up into the precious hierarchy we all know and love. Such was the case in the late 1800's and early 1900's when we seen many of America's Mafia Families form. But starting in the late 1960's and continuing onto the present, these families began to decline with the changes in biosphere: Americanization/gentrification, the changing/evolving scope of organized crime itself as well as increasingly aggressive law enforcement. But such a decline doesn't happen overnight and while defunct families like Cleveland, Pittsburgh and New Orleans among others are essentially gone, there are traces of the biosphere- however depleted- that initially provided the mob with the means to sustain itself locally.
And as we all know, I go with who the feds and OC experts consider a functioning family. Of course, as I've also said, that's with the understanding that there are still remnants (individual members and associates) alive and some even active in other cities. Over the past 15 years we've seen such in Buffalo/Rochester, NE Pennsylvania, Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Kansas City, Tampa and New Orleans even though officials don't recognize viable families there anymore.
Chris Christie wrote:That would have been the most logical method for long term existence, but even that carries a half-life. The Mafia model of controlling localized crime is becoming inferior in a globalized world. It's quite comparable to The Office, while we can admire the resilience of Dunder-Mifflin Paper Supplies it can't compete with Staples, in the realm of OC, that would be the Chinese/Russians with their international scope. Yes, we do see international crime involving relatives in NYC and Sicily in the drug market, it's still quite microscopic compared to the French Connection and even the Pizza Case in the 60's and 80's.
Except, claims to the contrary notwithstanding, I haven't seen much evidence of the domestic Chinese and Russian groups here in the US really being Staples. At least when it comes to most cases we see brought against these groups. Both don't tend to use the more hierarchical organization the LCN does. Their more fluid structure can make a RICO case harder to bring but it also has kept them from growing into the kind of organizations many predicted would challenge and push aside the mob. The FBI actually said many of their fears about the Russians supplanting the LCN as the new criminal power didn't come about. You could say the same thing about the Chinese. Also, unlike Staples and Dunder-Mifflin being in direct competition, I don't see that so much when it comes to the LCN and the Russians, Chinese, or other groups for that matter. Have any of these groups had any significant impact on the mob's bookmaking and loansharking operations? No. In the past black and Hispanic groups moved to take more control of the numbers in their areas but the lottery and younger generations being more interested in other forms of gambling had a bigger impact later on. None of these groups have been a factor in the mob's labor racketeering operations. When it comes to various frauds and scams we've seen as much or more partnership between these groups, like stock or health care fraud, than direct competition. Drugs are the one area that's the exception but it's been mostly the Hispanic groups that have taken the dominant role. And that's because the LCN was never really in a position to control the supply of cocaine or marijuana to begin with. But as I've pointed out before, the Mafia has benefited more from its diverse economic base than being at the top of the drug trade, which it still makes a lot of money from anyway.
[quote="Chris Christie"]It's always been debatable and open to interpretation as to what constitutes a functioning organized crime family. Some prefer to argue the merits based on the amount of activity; a continuing traditional hierarchy and some take solstice in membership numbers. Each side has a point. Cities like Pittsburgh and Cleveland do have several made members left allegedly involved in various underworld activity with no functioning organization; while others, still maintaining a hierarchy really aren't up to much (at least on paper). One could argue that the Scranton Family in the 90's with it's one remaining member dash boss Billy D'Elia would have to be considered "functioning," who despite his lack of underlings nor infrastructure was recognized as a power dash representative by the New York Families as well as Philadelphia.
The Mafia hierarchy, while showing a fully formed mafia organization, does not exist on that structure alone. Families are not formed easily and it's not as simple as someone declaring autonomy and putting underlings into mob rank positions. In fact it's essential that the proper biosphere exists for such an entity to form: Italian demographics, criminal economies and political/legal circumstances which allow for such a criminal presence to organize and build up into the precious hierarchy we all know and love. Such was the case in the late 1800's and early 1900's when we seen many of America's Mafia Families form. But starting in the late 1960's and continuing onto the present, these families began to decline with the changes in biosphere: Americanization/gentrification, the changing/evolving scope of organized crime itself as well as increasingly aggressive law enforcement. But such a decline doesn't happen overnight and while defunct families like Cleveland, Pittsburgh and New Orleans among others are essentially gone, there are traces of the biosphere- however depleted- that initially provided the mob with the means to sustain itself locally.[/quote]
And as we all know, I go with who the feds and OC experts consider a functioning family. Of course, as I've also said, that's with the understanding that there are still remnants (individual members and associates) alive and some even active in other cities. Over the past 15 years we've seen such in Buffalo/Rochester, NE Pennsylvania, Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Kansas City, Tampa and New Orleans even though officials don't recognize viable families there anymore.
[quote="Chris Christie"]That would have been the most logical method for long term existence, but even that carries a half-life. The Mafia model of controlling localized crime is becoming inferior in a globalized world. It's quite comparable to The Office, while we can admire the resilience of Dunder-Mifflin Paper Supplies it can't compete with Staples, in the realm of OC, that would be the Chinese/Russians with their international scope. Yes, we do see international crime involving relatives in NYC and Sicily in the drug market, it's still quite microscopic compared to the French Connection and even the Pizza Case in the 60's and 80's.[/quote]
Except, claims to the contrary notwithstanding, I haven't seen much evidence of the domestic Chinese and Russian groups here in the US really being Staples. At least when it comes to most cases we see brought against these groups. Both don't tend to use the more hierarchical organization the LCN does. Their more fluid structure can make a RICO case harder to bring but it also has kept them from growing into the kind of organizations many predicted would challenge and push aside the mob. The FBI actually said many of their fears about the Russians supplanting the LCN as the new criminal power didn't come about. You could say the same thing about the Chinese. Also, unlike Staples and Dunder-Mifflin being in direct competition, I don't see that so much when it comes to the LCN and the Russians, Chinese, or other groups for that matter. Have any of these groups had any significant impact on the mob's bookmaking and loansharking operations? No. In the past black and Hispanic groups moved to take more control of the numbers in their areas but the lottery and younger generations being more interested in other forms of gambling had a bigger impact later on. None of these groups have been a factor in the mob's labor racketeering operations. When it comes to various frauds and scams we've seen as much or more partnership between these groups, like stock or health care fraud, than direct competition. Drugs are the one area that's the exception but it's been mostly the Hispanic groups that have taken the dominant role. And that's because the LCN was never really in a position to control the supply of cocaine or marijuana to begin with. But as I've pointed out before, the Mafia has benefited more from its diverse economic base than being at the top of the drug trade, which it still makes a lot of money from anyway.