Beliefs with no evidence

Forum rules

Post a reply

Confirmation code
Enter the code exactly as it appears. All letters are case insensitive.
BBCode is OFF
Smilies are OFF
Topic review
   

Expand view Topic review: Beliefs with no evidence

Re: Beliefs with no evidence

by Camo » Fri May 23, 2025 6:18 pm

B. wrote: ↑Fri May 23, 2025 5:47 pm The DeMeo crew (both as a crew and individually) had a ton of bodies whatever the true number is. I'm trying to remember if anyone has ever made an attempt to tally up confirmed and suspected Scarpa hits. Most of the ones we know are from his later years but he clearly made a name for himself as a killer under Charlie LoCicero much earlier, LoCicero heading one of Profaci's main enforcement wings and having the rep of a serious killer himself. Scarpa told the FBI there was a rogue gang of young guys who defied the mafia circa 1950s so Charlie LoCicero oversaw the killing of the entire gang (the two survivors were inducted into the Colombos -- offhand, I believe it was one of the Tropianos and one of the Guariglia brothers but can't recall for sure). He of course didn't implicate himself but when I read that story I immediately suspected Scarpa was one of the killers who took out the gang.
Are there sources available to put together something like JD did for the DeMeo Crew for Scarpa (or anything else)? I thought the DeMeo Crew was pretty unique in that there was an informant who was the nephew of the real head of the Crew, was an associate of the Crew himself, and was also close friends with one of the most prominent members (Henry). Then there was like 3 other informants in the Crew to fill in the gaps.

Would be very interesting though. Scarpa is just a weird situation in that he was the informant so we have an unbelievable amount of information about him and we know he was a prolific killer but he obviously wasn't listing his personal murders.

I was going to compare Casso/Amuso to the DeMeo Crew but what we have about them is also later in their careers since D'arco is the main reliable source unless we seriously consider Philip Carlo's book.

Re: Beliefs with no evidence

by B. » Fri May 23, 2025 5:47 pm

The DeMeo crew (both as a crew and individually) had a ton of bodies whatever the true number is. I'm trying to remember if anyone has ever made an attempt to tally up confirmed and suspected Scarpa hits. Most of the ones we know are from his later years but he clearly made a name for himself as a killer under Charlie LoCicero much earlier, LoCicero heading one of Profaci's main enforcement wings and having the rep of a serious killer himself. Scarpa told the FBI there was a rogue gang of young guys who defied the mafia circa 1950s so Charlie LoCicero oversaw the killing of the entire gang (the two survivors were inducted into the Colombos -- offhand, I believe it was one of the Tropianos and one of the Guariglia brothers but can't recall for sure). He of course didn't implicate himself but when I read that story I immediately suspected Scarpa was one of the killers who took out the gang.

Re: Beliefs with no evidence

by Camo » Fri May 23, 2025 12:45 pm

Criminals like Montiglio making those claims is whatever, they are hyping up what they were around for attention or business opportunities or whatever, we shouldn't take them at face value past their testimony when there was real consequences for lying.

However the Cops and FBI also make those kinds of ridiculous claims, not just about the Mafia but about Serial Killers too the possible murder count is always absurdly inflated to the point that they would have to have committed every single murder with any similiarities to their confirmed murders. I wonder if that's what it is, they say Ted Bundy largely killed college aged white women and x amount of college aged white women were murdered in or disappeared from the areas he operated when he was free thus he could have killed as many as 400 women.

Re: Beliefs with no evidence

by Wiseguy » Fri May 23, 2025 12:00 pm

Montiglio outdid Ruffles. In one documentary he claimed 500-700 total. :lol:

Re: Beliefs with no evidence

by SonnyBlackstein » Thu May 22, 2025 8:33 pm

Ivan wrote: ↑Thu May 22, 2025 4:59 pm Clearly you have greater tolerance than me for THREAD DECAY. Tolerance for all the ROT.
Easy there tiger.

Re: Beliefs with no evidence

by Camo » Thu May 22, 2025 5:33 pm

Ivan wrote: ↑Thu May 22, 2025 5:27 pm
Camo wrote: ↑Thu May 22, 2025 5:17 pm JD has 53 up to DeMeo's murder with DeMeo himself as the 54th. Depends which murders you count as DeMeo Crew Murders after that, i don't consider the Senter/Testa murders for Casso for instance but others may disagree. He has 71 murders listed overall - https://lcnbios.blogspot.com/2018/05/de ... rders.html
I don't consider the Casso murders part of them either, but a lot of people do for some reason. I'm being very generous with that 80 figure as a possible maximum. It's a rough estimate that includes everyone on JD's list including the Casso ones plus some other possible ones not on the list that other researchers turned up (Lloyd Smith, Constance Burke, a handful of others Quentin Walker says he's found, etc.) and then rounds up to a rough figure of 80 to account for a handful of possible "ones we will never know about".
I agree with you 80 is a fair number and 200 is silly. There probably was some killings we don't know about as they were very murderous people and none of the informants were high ranking within the Crew, the guys who would've known everything were Roy, Nino, Henry and the Gemini Twins as well as Chris up to his murder. Dominic was the best of the informants but by his own admission he was in and out of things. Still there's no way we don't know about like 130 murders nearly twice the amount we do know about. I'd probably say 60-90 depending on what you are counting to give it a fairly wide range.

Re: Beliefs with no evidence

by Ivan » Thu May 22, 2025 5:27 pm

Camo wrote: ↑Thu May 22, 2025 5:17 pm JD has 53 up to DeMeo's murder with DeMeo himself as the 54th. Depends which murders you count as DeMeo Crew Murders after that, i don't consider the Senter/Testa murders for Casso for instance but others may disagree. He has 71 murders listed overall - https://lcnbios.blogspot.com/2018/05/de ... rders.html
I don't consider the Casso murders part of them either, but a lot of people do for some reason. I'm being very generous with that 80 figure as a possible maximum. It's a rough estimate that includes everyone on JD's list including the Casso ones plus some other possible ones not on the list that other researchers turned up (Lloyd Smith, Constance Burke, a handful of others Quentin Walker says he's found, etc.) and then rounds up to a rough figure of 80 to account for a handful of possible "ones we will never know about".

Artie Ruffels' figure of 200 (sometimes he says 300!) is way out to lunch IMHO.

Re: Beliefs with no evidence

by Camo » Thu May 22, 2025 5:17 pm

Ivan wrote: ↑Thu May 22, 2025 4:59 pm
B. wrote: ↑Thu May 22, 2025 4:29 pm No worries man.
Clearly you have greater tolerance than me for THREAD DECAY. Tolerance for all the ROT.

Anyway to get back on track, as far as beliefs with no evidence, I don't think the DeMeo crew killed "200 people" as the FBI likes to speculate. I think the 80 or so homicides that have been linked to them are all that there are. The feds have no real evidence for their belief that they did kill 200, and I have no ironclad proof that they didn't kill 200 (can't prove a negative), but I think 80 total is about right.
JD has 53 up to DeMeo's murder with DeMeo himself as the 54th. Depends which murders you count as DeMeo Crew Murders after that, i don't consider the Senter/Testa murders for Casso for instance but others may disagree. He has 71 murders listed overall - https://lcnbios.blogspot.com/2018/05/de ... rders.html

Re: Beliefs with no evidence

by Ivan » Thu May 22, 2025 4:59 pm

B. wrote: ↑Thu May 22, 2025 4:29 pm No worries man.
Clearly you have greater tolerance than me for THREAD DECAY. Tolerance for all the ROT.

Anyway to get back on track, as far as beliefs with no evidence, I don't think the DeMeo crew killed "200 people" as the FBI likes to speculate. I think the 80 or so homicides that have been linked to them are all that there are. The feds have no real evidence for their belief that they did kill 200, and I have no ironclad proof that they didn't kill 200 (can't prove a negative), but I think 80 total is about right.

Re: Beliefs with no evidence

by B. » Thu May 22, 2025 4:29 pm

No worries man.

This thread is crazy but I intended it to be about scenarios that could feasibly be true but we just lack concrete evidence.

Re: Beliefs with no evidence

by Don_Peppino » Thu May 22, 2025 4:14 pm

I don't want to contribute to the "thread decay", so I apologize for the post and leave it there.

Re: Beliefs with no evidence

by Ivan » Thu May 22, 2025 3:47 pm

B. wrote: ↑Thu May 22, 2025 2:59 pm I mean no disrespect but this thread is about beliefs with no evidence, not hypotheticals, alternate realities, or comparing Families.
Been a lot of thread decay lately.

Re: Beliefs with no evidence

by SonnyBlackstein » Thu May 22, 2025 3:45 pm

B. wrote: ↑Thu May 22, 2025 2:59 pm I mean no disrespect but this thread is about beliefs with no evidence, not hypotheticals, alternate realities, or comparing Families.
Plus 1

Re: Beliefs with no evidence

by B. » Thu May 22, 2025 2:59 pm

I mean no disrespect but this thread is about beliefs with no evidence, not hypotheticals, alternate realities, or comparing Families.

Re: Beliefs with no evidence

by Don_Peppino » Thu May 22, 2025 9:03 am

Wiseguy wrote: ↑Thu May 22, 2025 7:04 am
Don_Peppino wrote: ↑Thu May 22, 2025 6:12 am Lets think about this one and have some fun.
Scenario: It's the 1950's thru the 80's, what would be a stronger Family combination? The Bruno/Scarfo Family and The Decav's as one group with the Gambino Jersey crew or The Decav's with the Jersey Genovese and Lucchese crews?
The latter.
I agree, I just wanted some other opinions because I always thought a Philly and Jersey combo would make a very strong Family but notice, I added the Gambinos to the mix to give it more weight.

It brings a follow up.question.
At a base level, have the Decav's always been a stronger Family than Philly?

Top