by NorthBuffalo » Wed Apr 30, 2025 1:57 pm
Patrickgold wrote: ↑Wed Apr 30, 2025 11:18 am
NorthBuffalo wrote: ↑Wed Apr 30, 2025 10:06 am
Patrickgold wrote: ↑Wed Apr 30, 2025 9:55 am
NorthBuffalo wrote: ↑Wed Apr 30, 2025 8:56 am
Coloboy wrote: ↑Wed Apr 30, 2025 7:31 am
Just comparing it to my own life and career, 15 years is a long ass time and a lot can change in that period. I would tend to agree back in 2010 he probably wasn’t near the top of the pecking order in Elmwood Park. With guys passing and getting older, I’d be willing to buy that he’s the top guy in that crew today.
As far as him being boss? I suppose I see no reason not to entertain the idea. All in all, it just reinforces my point that we have no idea what the hell is going on, especially at the top of the outfit. I have to chuckle, because a month or two ago, somebody made a post saying “I don’t know who the boss is, but it definitely isn’t Fratto”, lol.
The only thing I am sure of is whatever the actual top structure looks like, nobody has it right in terms of who is who. I think there would be some surprises if that info were to ever get out
I agree - that said, you do have the 2016 Frontier indictment that came out looking at Elmwood Park (Gagliano, Cassano, D'Amico) and Fratto's name is not mentioned. As Fosco generally indicated, Fratto always had 'protectors' in the Outfit all of whom were that old guard who died - he was never an earner, never a businessman and never a union guy. The only scams he's been linked to are largely greedy independent things - then a really dumb tax evasion charge, which most Outfit 'bosses' simply don't pull until they go broke (case in point Mickey Marcello...)
I think to Snakes point I would counter - the old guard was Frattos' bread and butter - he was protected by Messino/Cerone and by extension DiFronzo - I tend to wonder if guys like Cassano and Gagliano who are really involved in EP based on recent FBI files are actually in charge and Fratto is just 'on the shelf' of sorts today.
Fratto has major connections at McCormick place and still does to this day. He has heavy union ties. Wasn’t he indicted for a scheme at McCormick place?
The scheme at McCormick was half-assed bid rigging/semi extortion. I've read through it in detail - Fratto is really independent and making clear he is independent of Chicago, but can essentially use their reputation. No union involvement whatsoever. It was a fed posing as someone with a problem in Cleveland - Fratto offered to intercede by himself. Real bosses wouldn't do that from my view, nor would the more cunning Outfit types.
I look at the Daddonos and other families at McCormick with million dollar franchise companies and contracts - I don't think Fratto is even on the same level as the real guys from my view.
Inverness man accused in scheme at McCormick Place
By Ted Cox
Daily Herald
Mar. 12th, 2010
An Inverness owner of an equipment-rental company and a Darien man who authorities say claimed to be a member of the Chicago Outfit were charged with mail fraud Friday over a bid-rigging scheme at the McCormick Place Convention Center in Chicago.
Rudolph Fratto, 66, of Darien was charged along with William Anthony Degironemo, 66, of Inverness. According to the indictment, Fratto, who also goes by the nicknames "The Chin" and "Uncle Rudy," identified himself as a member of the Chicago Outfit to an unidentified individual who worked for Greyhound Exposition Services on McCormick Place contracts and also owed money to Cleveland mobsters.
Fratto offered to intercede on the individual's behalf on his "debt to Cleveland" in exchange for swinging a forklift contract to Degironemo's business, MidStates Equipment Rentals, the indictment says.
The indictment says they discussed leaving MidStates' bid blank, to be filled in later, but instead they outbid competing firms when the forklift contract was awarded in January 2006.
Both were charged with mail fraud over letters others were compelled to write stating that MidStates was a reliable forklift company, when, in fact, "MidStates was not actively involved in the forklift business," the indictment states. Degironemo, who according to the indictment goes by the name "Billy D," was also charged with lying to FBI agents.
The mail-fraud count carries a maximum penalty of 20 years in prison and making false statements a maximum of five years, both with a possible fine of $250,000.
Fratto recently pleaded guilty to tax evasion. He was released on $200,000 bond with home confinement. Degironemo will be arraigned at a later date.
Well I will disagree with your assessment that he has no union ties because I have personally seen him in the company of Terry Hancock and Sam Scianna and it was not a one time thing.
Also, maybe the scheme he got busted for was independent of the Outfit. By that time he was shunned by DiFronzo I believe and maybe was thirsty for money. But it was such a pennyante amount it makes me think that the Feds were thirsty to get something on him. If he is independent then it would make me believe that guys like Spina and Paulie C are too bc they are in each other’s company a lot. The guys that told me he’s the boss are guys that did heavy jail time and are reliable sources so take that for what it is.
I think the Feds are around McCormick place on a regular basis given the amount of money involved - as they are at all convention centers. I think Rudy was just an easy 'get' who walked right into a trap. I also just don't see guys getting 'iced/shelved' by DiFronzo and crew and then coming back years later - again, I think Rudy lost his clout when Messino and others passed away and stopped protecting him or including him on things. I know he has other relatives who are connected to various people today.
I don't know those union guys you mentioned - but Local 703 has been in the Outfit going back to Joey Glimco (when I was at a convention we saw its president then Dom Senese speak). Again, Rudy is a bit of an Outfit 'prince' since he grew up around these guys - perhaps he sees people out socially but he's not running union scams.
The level of this scheme is too - 'non sophisticated' from my view - I think most the real Outfit guys are complete ghosts to be honest.
https://archives.fbi.gov/archives/chica ... 031210.htm[quote=Patrickgold post_id=293044 time=1746037111 user_id=6577]
[quote=NorthBuffalo post_id=293034 time=1746032796 user_id=8087]
[quote=Patrickgold post_id=293032 time=1746032143 user_id=6577]
[quote=NorthBuffalo post_id=293027 time=1746028560 user_id=8087]
[quote=Coloboy post_id=293022 time=1746023493 user_id=6473]
Just comparing it to my own life and career, 15 years is a long ass time and a lot can change in that period. I would tend to agree back in 2010 he probably wasn’t near the top of the pecking order in Elmwood Park. With guys passing and getting older, I’d be willing to buy that he’s the top guy in that crew today.
As far as him being boss? I suppose I see no reason not to entertain the idea. All in all, it just reinforces my point that we have no idea what the hell is going on, especially at the top of the outfit. I have to chuckle, because a month or two ago, somebody made a post saying “I don’t know who the boss is, but it definitely isn’t Fratto”, lol.
The only thing I am sure of is whatever the actual top structure looks like, nobody has it right in terms of who is who. I think there would be some surprises if that info were to ever get out
[/quote]
I agree - that said, you do have the 2016 Frontier indictment that came out looking at Elmwood Park (Gagliano, Cassano, D'Amico) and Fratto's name is not mentioned. As Fosco generally indicated, Fratto always had 'protectors' in the Outfit all of whom were that old guard who died - he was never an earner, never a businessman and never a union guy. The only scams he's been linked to are largely greedy independent things - then a really dumb tax evasion charge, which most Outfit 'bosses' simply don't pull until they go broke (case in point Mickey Marcello...)
I think to Snakes point I would counter - the old guard was Frattos' bread and butter - he was protected by Messino/Cerone and by extension DiFronzo - I tend to wonder if guys like Cassano and Gagliano who are really involved in EP based on recent FBI files are actually in charge and Fratto is just 'on the shelf' of sorts today.
[/quote]
Fratto has major connections at McCormick place and still does to this day. He has heavy union ties. Wasn’t he indicted for a scheme at McCormick place?
[/quote]
The scheme at McCormick was half-assed bid rigging/semi extortion. I've read through it in detail - Fratto is really independent and making clear he is independent of Chicago, but can essentially use their reputation. No union involvement whatsoever. It was a fed posing as someone with a problem in Cleveland - Fratto offered to intercede by himself. Real bosses wouldn't do that from my view, nor would the more cunning Outfit types.
I look at the Daddonos and other families at McCormick with million dollar franchise companies and contracts - I don't think Fratto is even on the same level as the real guys from my view.
Inverness man accused in scheme at McCormick Place
By Ted Cox
Daily Herald
Mar. 12th, 2010
An Inverness owner of an equipment-rental company and a Darien man who authorities say claimed to be a member of the Chicago Outfit were charged with mail fraud Friday over a bid-rigging scheme at the McCormick Place Convention Center in Chicago.
Rudolph Fratto, 66, of Darien was charged along with William Anthony Degironemo, 66, of Inverness. According to the indictment, Fratto, who also goes by the nicknames "The Chin" and "Uncle Rudy," identified himself as a member of the Chicago Outfit to an unidentified individual who worked for Greyhound Exposition Services on McCormick Place contracts and also owed money to Cleveland mobsters.
Fratto offered to intercede on the individual's behalf on his "debt to Cleveland" in exchange for swinging a forklift contract to Degironemo's business, MidStates Equipment Rentals, the indictment says.
The indictment says they discussed leaving MidStates' bid blank, to be filled in later, but instead they outbid competing firms when the forklift contract was awarded in January 2006.
Both were charged with mail fraud over letters others were compelled to write stating that MidStates was a reliable forklift company, when, in fact, "MidStates was not actively involved in the forklift business," the indictment states. Degironemo, who according to the indictment goes by the name "Billy D," was also charged with lying to FBI agents.
The mail-fraud count carries a maximum penalty of 20 years in prison and making false statements a maximum of five years, both with a possible fine of $250,000.
Fratto recently pleaded guilty to tax evasion. He was released on $200,000 bond with home confinement. Degironemo will be arraigned at a later date.
[/quote]
Well I will disagree with your assessment that he has no union ties because I have personally seen him in the company of Terry Hancock and Sam Scianna and it was not a one time thing.
Also, maybe the scheme he got busted for was independent of the Outfit. By that time he was shunned by DiFronzo I believe and maybe was thirsty for money. But it was such a pennyante amount it makes me think that the Feds were thirsty to get something on him. If he is independent then it would make me believe that guys like Spina and Paulie C are too bc they are in each other’s company a lot. The guys that told me he’s the boss are guys that did heavy jail time and are reliable sources so take that for what it is.
[/quote]
I think the Feds are around McCormick place on a regular basis given the amount of money involved - as they are at all convention centers. I think Rudy was just an easy 'get' who walked right into a trap. I also just don't see guys getting 'iced/shelved' by DiFronzo and crew and then coming back years later - again, I think Rudy lost his clout when Messino and others passed away and stopped protecting him or including him on things. I know he has other relatives who are connected to various people today.
I don't know those union guys you mentioned - but Local 703 has been in the Outfit going back to Joey Glimco (when I was at a convention we saw its president then Dom Senese speak). Again, Rudy is a bit of an Outfit 'prince' since he grew up around these guys - perhaps he sees people out socially but he's not running union scams.
The level of this scheme is too - 'non sophisticated' from my view - I think most the real Outfit guys are complete ghosts to be honest.
https://archives.fbi.gov/archives/chicago/press-releases/2010/cg031210.htm