THE BLACK HAND FORUM

Little_Al1991 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 15, 2025 2:34 am

Antiliar wrote: ↑Mon Apr 14, 2025 11:38 pm

Little_Al1991 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 13, 2025 9:59 am

Snakes wrote: ↑Sun Apr 13, 2025 7:23 am

Little_Al1991 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 13, 2025 7:22 am

Snakes wrote: ↑Sun Apr 13, 2025 7:18 am This also almost certainly not the complete amount of files which exist on Casso or D'Arco. Usually the Vault is composed of files commonly requested. I have a suspicion that someone was given an estimation of thousands of pages and only took the first interim release because a price estimate scared them off. I haven't gone through the Muckrock link for D'Arco, but as Chin says, they don't and won't take a lot of initiative when they search for files, so you really need to have additional specifics to find anything. Even then, they seem to have inexplicably gotten even more restrictive on what they redact compared to what was released 10-15 years ago. Not sure if this is do to some internal policy, edict or what, but it's intensely frustrating.

In regards to the D’Arco file, the user on Muckrock specifically requested

“ Please conduct a search of the Central Records System, including but not limited to the ELSUR Records System, the Microphone Surveillance (MISUR) Indices, the Physical Surveillance (FISUR) Indices, the Technical Surveillance (TESUR) Indices, and Counterdrug Information Indices System (CIIS), for both main-file records and cross-reference records for all relevant names, individuals, agencies and companies.”

Is this not complete? Is he missing anything in particular? I’d like to learn so I can understand and make requests

I would have to know if the FBI replied back at some point with a page estimate after a complete search. I can look and see.

I just had a quick look at the communications section. The FBI said “ At approximately 3098 pages, the request is currently in the large track. Please see the information below regarding track sizes and potential waiting times.” Subsequent communications display that the user didn’t want to reduce the scope but on the vault it appears as “part 1 (final)” Which means do not expect anymore of it to be released

Disappointing

So expect those 3098 pages to show up in 7 to 10 years.

But why does it say “(final)” on the vault, that usually means that this is all that they have

Antiliar wrote: ↑Mon Apr 14, 2025 11:38 pm

Little_Al1991 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 13, 2025 9:59 am

Snakes wrote: ↑Sun Apr 13, 2025 7:23 am

Little_Al1991 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 13, 2025 7:22 am

Snakes wrote: ↑Sun Apr 13, 2025 7:18 am This also almost certainly not the complete amount of files which exist on Casso or D'Arco. Usually the Vault is composed of files commonly requested. I have a suspicion that someone was given an estimation of thousands of pages and only took the first interim release because a price estimate scared them off. I haven't gone through the Muckrock link for D'Arco, but as Chin says, they don't and won't take a lot of initiative when they search for files, so you really need to have additional specifics to find anything. Even then, they seem to have inexplicably gotten even more restrictive on what they redact compared to what was released 10-15 years ago. Not sure if this is do to some internal policy, edict or what, but it's intensely frustrating.

In regards to the D’Arco file, the user on Muckrock specifically requested

“ Please conduct a search of the Central Records System, including but not limited to the ELSUR Records System, the Microphone Surveillance (MISUR) Indices, the Physical Surveillance (FISUR) Indices, the Technical Surveillance (TESUR) Indices, and Counterdrug Information Indices System (CIIS), for both main-file records and cross-reference records for all relevant names, individuals, agencies and companies.”

Is this not complete? Is he missing anything in particular? I’d like to learn so I can understand and make requests

I would have to know if the FBI replied back at some point with a page estimate after a complete search. I can look and see.

I just had a quick look at the communications section. The FBI said “ At approximately 3098 pages, the request is currently in the large track. Please see the information below regarding track sizes and potential waiting times.” Subsequent communications display that the user didn’t want to reduce the scope but on the vault it appears as “part 1 (final)” Which means do not expect anymore of it to be released

Disappointing

So expect those 3098 pages to show up in 7 to 10 years.

Little_Al1991 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 13, 2025 9:59 am

Snakes wrote: ↑Sun Apr 13, 2025 7:23 am

Little_Al1991 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 13, 2025 7:22 am

Snakes wrote: ↑Sun Apr 13, 2025 7:18 am This also almost certainly not the complete amount of files which exist on Casso or D'Arco. Usually the Vault is composed of files commonly requested. I have a suspicion that someone was given an estimation of thousands of pages and only took the first interim release because a price estimate scared them off. I haven't gone through the Muckrock link for D'Arco, but as Chin says, they don't and won't take a lot of initiative when they search for files, so you really need to have additional specifics to find anything. Even then, they seem to have inexplicably gotten even more restrictive on what they redact compared to what was released 10-15 years ago. Not sure if this is do to some internal policy, edict or what, but it's intensely frustrating.

In regards to the D’Arco file, the user on Muckrock specifically requested

“ Please conduct a search of the Central Records System, including but not limited to the ELSUR Records System, the Microphone Surveillance (MISUR) Indices, the Physical Surveillance (FISUR) Indices, the Technical Surveillance (TESUR) Indices, and Counterdrug Information Indices System (CIIS), for both main-file records and cross-reference records for all relevant names, individuals, agencies and companies.”

Is this not complete? Is he missing anything in particular? I’d like to learn so I can understand and make requests

I would have to know if the FBI replied back at some point with a page estimate after a complete search. I can look and see.

I just had a quick look at the communications section. The FBI said “ At approximately 3098 pages, the request is currently in the large track. Please see the information below regarding track sizes and potential waiting times.” Subsequent communications display that the user didn’t want to reduce the scope but on the vault it appears as “part 1 (final)” Which means do not expect anymore of it to be released

Disappointing

Snakes wrote: ↑Sun Apr 13, 2025 7:23 am

Little_Al1991 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 13, 2025 7:22 am

Snakes wrote: ↑Sun Apr 13, 2025 7:18 am This also almost certainly not the complete amount of files which exist on Casso or D'Arco. Usually the Vault is composed of files commonly requested. I have a suspicion that someone was given an estimation of thousands of pages and only took the first interim release because a price estimate scared them off. I haven't gone through the Muckrock link for D'Arco, but as Chin says, they don't and won't take a lot of initiative when they search for files, so you really need to have additional specifics to find anything. Even then, they seem to have inexplicably gotten even more restrictive on what they redact compared to what was released 10-15 years ago. Not sure if this is do to some internal policy, edict or what, but it's intensely frustrating.

In regards to the D’Arco file, the user on Muckrock specifically requested

“ Please conduct a search of the Central Records System, including but not limited to the ELSUR Records System, the Microphone Surveillance (MISUR) Indices, the Physical Surveillance (FISUR) Indices, the Technical Surveillance (TESUR) Indices, and Counterdrug Information Indices System (CIIS), for both main-file records and cross-reference records for all relevant names, individuals, agencies and companies.”

Is this not complete? Is he missing anything in particular? I’d like to learn so I can understand and make requests

I would have to know if the FBI replied back at some point with a page estimate after a complete search. I can look and see.

Little_Al1991 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 13, 2025 7:22 am

Snakes wrote: ↑Sun Apr 13, 2025 7:18 am This also almost certainly not the complete amount of files which exist on Casso or D'Arco. Usually the Vault is composed of files commonly requested. I have a suspicion that someone was given an estimation of thousands of pages and only took the first interim release because a price estimate scared them off. I haven't gone through the Muckrock link for D'Arco, but as Chin says, they don't and won't take a lot of initiative when they search for files, so you really need to have additional specifics to find anything. Even then, they seem to have inexplicably gotten even more restrictive on what they redact compared to what was released 10-15 years ago. Not sure if this is do to some internal policy, edict or what, but it's intensely frustrating.

In regards to the D’Arco file, the user on Muckrock specifically requested

“ Please conduct a search of the Central Records System, including but not limited to the ELSUR Records System, the Microphone Surveillance (MISUR) Indices, the Physical Surveillance (FISUR) Indices, the Technical Surveillance (TESUR) Indices, and Counterdrug Information Indices System (CIIS), for both main-file records and cross-reference records for all relevant names, individuals, agencies and companies.”

Is this not complete? Is he missing anything in particular? I’d like to learn so I can understand and make requests

Snakes wrote: ↑Sun Apr 13, 2025 7:18 am This also almost certainly not the complete amount of files which exist on Casso or D'Arco. Usually the Vault is composed of files commonly requested. I have a suspicion that someone was given an estimation of thousands of pages and only took the first interim release because a price estimate scared them off. I haven't gone through the Muckrock link for D'Arco, but as Chin says, they don't and won't take a lot of initiative when they search for files, so you really need to have additional specifics to find anything. Even then, they seem to have inexplicably gotten even more restrictive on what they redact compared to what was released 10-15 years ago. Not sure if this is do to some internal policy, edict or what, but it's intensely frustrating.

chin_gigante wrote: ↑Sun Apr 13, 2025 5:14 am The FBI is notoriously redaction-happy when it comes to releasing files through FOIA. A lot of it can be chalked up to files containing information about people who are still alive, but there are still plenty of redactions for material relevant to the 1960s and before.

My suspicion is this is partly because they don't have the manpower or, alternatively, are too lazy to go through and check whether to remove all the old redactions before they release material. I imagine it would be quite a lengthy and tedious process.