boss of bosses

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Re: boss of bosses

by Snakes » Mon Dec 29, 2014 4:42 pm

Frank Ferraro ran the Loop. He was always in meetings with Ricca, Accardo, Giancana, Humphreys, and some of the other captains so I think it gave off the impression that he was the #2. I don't think they ever caught him relaying any orders to any of the crews, either.

Re: boss of bosses

by East Bronx » Mon Dec 29, 2014 4:21 pm

Milwaukee Phil's back! What up, brudda? :mrgreen:

Re: boss of bosses

by MilwaukeePhil » Mon Dec 29, 2014 4:00 pm

Antiliar wrote:
MilwaukeePhil wrote:
Antiliar wrote:Phil was polarizing -- even his own people didn't like him that much. But I don't think Mags would have referred to him as a boss if he wasn't. Too many sources say he got the top spot, although only for a short time before he went to prison.
Did Mags say he was just a "boss" or "top boss?" I personally don't find Mags to be that good of a source - especially on the Outfit's power structure while he was a little kid. I personally think he lied a lot on ANP (i.e. meeting John Gotti, etc.) but that's just me.

I do know Phil was a powerful guy - (i.e. he was the power behind Frank Balistreri in Milwaukee) but if I had to bet money, I don't think Accardo would have placed him as a boss.
Ricca was still around and had the most leverage and he would have backed him. Accardo would have gone along with any decision he made. As for Mags, I don't see any reason for him to lie about chronology, and he heard a lot of stories from older members like his father, Cerone, DiFronzo, Messino and Andriacchi, and of course, Accardo himself. Some may exaggerate their own stories and their own importance, but they generally don't lie about who was a boss, a capo, etc. No reason to.
Pogo The Clown wrote: I guess they didn't call him Joey Doves for nothing.
That was given to him by a reporter, just like "Greasy Thumb" Guzik, Frank "the Enforcer" Nitti and others. His insider name was Joey O'Brien, from back when he reportedly boxed (although I haven't found evidence of a single bout).
Good point - Mags also was exposed to Accardo directly.

Snakes wasn't Frank Ferraro the underboss for Giancana? I also think Marco runs the show today as the active boss (Andriacchi as a counselor) or is acting as Andriacchi's mouthpiece. Marco is meeting with guys from all crews on a regular basis. But that's another thread entirely :lol: :lol:

Re: boss of bosses

by Antiliar » Mon Dec 29, 2014 3:31 pm

MilwaukeePhil wrote:
Antiliar wrote:Phil was polarizing -- even his own people didn't like him that much. But I don't think Mags would have referred to him as a boss if he wasn't. Too many sources say he got the top spot, although only for a short time before he went to prison.
Did Mags say he was just a "boss" or "top boss?" I personally don't find Mags to be that good of a source - especially on the Outfit's power structure while he was a little kid. I personally think he lied a lot on ANP (i.e. meeting John Gotti, etc.) but that's just me.

I do know Phil was a powerful guy - (i.e. he was the power behind Frank Balistreri in Milwaukee) but if I had to bet money, I don't think Accardo would have placed him as a boss.
Ricca was still around and had the most leverage and he would have backed him. Accardo would have gone along with any decision he made. As for Mags, I don't see any reason for him to lie about chronology, and he heard a lot of stories from older members like his father, Cerone, DiFronzo, Messino and Andriacchi, and of course, Accardo himself. Some may exaggerate their own stories and their own importance, but they generally don't lie about who was a boss, a capo, etc. No reason to.
Pogo The Clown wrote: I guess they didn't call him Joey Doves for nothing.
That was given to him by a reporter, just like "Greasy Thumb" Guzik, Frank "the Enforcer" Nitti and others. His insider name was Joey O'Brien, from back when he reportedly boxed (although I haven't found evidence of a single bout).

Re: boss of bosses

by Snakes » Mon Dec 29, 2014 3:29 pm

Let's try and figure out the succession. This is what I have from Giancana-era on:

1957-1966: Sam Giancana (stepped down)
[Depending on who you ask, the following may have been "acting" for Giancana while he was in Mexico]
1966-1967: Sam Battaglia (imprisoned)
1967-1970: Jack Cerone (imprisoned)
1970-1973: Tony Accardo/Joey Aiuppa/Gus Alex (adviser)
1973-1986: Joey Aiuppa (imprisoned)
1986-1992: Sam Carlisi (imprisoned)
1992-1994: Joey Lombardo (stepped down)
1994-2005: John DiFronzo (stepped down)
2005-Present: Joe Andriacchi

Underboss
1957-1973: Vacant
1973-1986: Jack Cerone (imprisoned)
1986-1993: John DiFronzo (imprisoned)
1993-1994: Joe Andriacchi
1994-2001: John Monteleone
2001-2003: Anthony Zizzo (acting for Marcello)
2003-2005: James Marcello (imprisoned)
2005-2006: Vacant/Unknown
2006-Present: Sal DeLaurentis

Re: boss of bosses

by Pogo The Clown » Mon Dec 29, 2014 2:40 pm

Antiliar wrote:Aiuppa did three months in 1970 for killing hundreds of doves

I guess they didn't call him Joey Doves for nothing. :mrgreen:


Pogo

Re: boss of bosses

by MilwaukeePhil » Mon Dec 29, 2014 2:37 pm

Antiliar wrote:Phil was polarizing -- even his own people didn't like him that much. But I don't think Mags would have referred to him as a boss if he wasn't. Too many sources say he got the top spot, although only for a short time before he went to prison.
Did Mags say he was just a "boss" or "top boss?" I personally don't find Mags to be that good of a source - especially on the Outfit's power structure while he was a little kid. I personally think he lied a lot on ANP (i.e. meeting John Gotti, etc.) but that's just me.

I do know Phil was a powerful guy - (i.e. he was the power behind Frank Balistreri in Milwaukee) but if I had to bet money, I don't think Accardo would have placed him as a boss.

Re: boss of bosses

by Antiliar » Mon Dec 29, 2014 2:13 pm

Phil was polarizing -- even his own people didn't like him that much. But I don't think Mags would have referred to him as a boss if he wasn't. Too many sources say he got the top spot, although only for a short time before he went to prison.

Re: boss of bosses

by MilwaukeePhil » Mon Dec 29, 2014 1:51 pm

The problem is that in Chicago, all these bigwigs are considered "bosses" and I think the Feds took that too literally. Milwaukee Phil was a "boss" but only of Grand Avenue, not the entire Outfit. I dont think Phil was ever the overall Outfit boss - not even close - he was too polarizing and too many guys hated him and a guy like that can't really be boss. He was also in a serious beef with the Cicero-based Bucceri/Ferriola crew right up until he went to prison. I instead wonder if he was more of a "mouthpiece" for Ricca, Alex and Accardo until Aiuppa got out of prison.

I also agree Cerone was just the "boss" of elmwood park and served as underboss for Aiuppa. He was never boss of the entire Outfit.

Re: boss of bosses

by Antiliar » Mon Dec 29, 2014 1:48 pm

Snakes wrote:He was boss in the late sixties for a brief period. When he got out of jail, Aiuppa was boss and he became his underboss.
We'll have to agree to disagree on this one. I believe it was earlier misinformation that reported Cerone as a boss in the late 60s. No doubt he was considered for the position, but he was grabbed by LE outside Ricca's home in February, 1969. Alderisio was still out and about until he was seized in July. Alderisio came after Battaglia, not Cerone. After that, Accardo ran it with Alex and Aiuppa. Aiuppa did three months in 1970 for killing hundreds of doves, then became boss after that until he went to prison and was succeeded by his protege, Carlisi.

Re: boss of bosses

by Snakes » Mon Dec 29, 2014 12:11 pm

He was boss in the late sixties for a brief period. When he got out of jail, Aiuppa was boss and he became his underboss.

Re: boss of bosses

by Antiliar » Sun Dec 28, 2014 12:27 am

Cerone was never a boss. That's where the confusion comes in. He was Aiuppa's underboss. If he wasn't demoted from boss to underboss, he went from capo to underboss.

Re: boss of bosses

by Pete » Sat Dec 27, 2014 11:42 pm

Snakes wrote:Concerning the Commission chart; I don't think that Milwaukee Phil was ever boss of the Outfit - the dates just don't add up. Cerone didn't go to prison until 1970 so he would have no reason to removed as boss before then. Alderisio was already in jail by that point so it doesn't make sense that he would be boss for the dates listed. I know these dates are ones that have been traditionally used so I can understand why they are used but I was just pointing out some fallacies involved with them.

As far as 1970 and on is concerned, it's difficult to tell when Aiuppa actually took complete control over the Outfit. It's possible that Accardo took over as boss for a few years before handing it over to Aiuppa. I have also heard that Accardo, Aiuppa, and Gus Alex (in a strictly advisory role as he was never made) jointly ran the Outfit during this time period. At any rate, by 1973/74 Aiuppa was definitely the undisputed boss but it's possible that he had taken over as early as 1970/71.
I know roemer said Milwaukee phil was boss for not even a year maybe right before going to prison where he would die and I know magnafichi referred to him as "the boss" when talking about him for whatever those two pieces of info are worth

Re: boss of bosses

by Snakes » Sat Dec 27, 2014 9:33 pm

Concerning the Commission chart; I don't think that Milwaukee Phil was ever boss of the Outfit - the dates just don't add up. Cerone didn't go to prison until 1970 so he would have no reason to removed as boss before then. Alderisio was already in jail by that point so it doesn't make sense that he would be boss for the dates listed. I know these dates are ones that have been traditionally used so I can understand why they are used but I was just pointing out some fallacies involved with them.

As far as 1970 and on is concerned, it's difficult to tell when Aiuppa actually took complete control over the Outfit. It's possible that Accardo took over as boss for a few years before handing it over to Aiuppa. I have also heard that Accardo, Aiuppa, and Gus Alex (in a strictly advisory role as he was never made) jointly ran the Outfit during this time period. At any rate, by 1973/74 Aiuppa was definitely the undisputed boss but it's possible that he had taken over as early as 1970/71.

Re: boss of bosses

by Angelo Santino » Sat Dec 27, 2014 9:07 pm

Rick informed me on the commission chart that I got some photos wrong. As soon as I have the list of incorrect errors I'll list them. That's my fault, but the info is correct.

In the future, if I make any mistakes or you have any disagreements, please post them. I've made mistakes in the past and I will make mistakes in the future. I have no ego in this and if I make a mistake and am corrected,I look at it as a learning curve and will be greatful. Salut. Now eat shit and live!

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