THE BLACK HAND FORUM

by **Brovelli** » Wed Jan 15, 2025 11:31 am

Funnily enough my family once held a successful business that still exists today. It was sold back in the 60s approximately and a common question among our family was: where is the money? lol

by **Brovelli** » Wed Jan 15, 2025 11:28 am

PTown wrote: ↑Tue Jan 14, 2025 11:35 pm But here’s the thing: we live in a country with no shame, driven by a lust for fame. If any of those bosses had created generational wealth, don’t you think we’d know? Like the grandkid would be a social media influencer?

I think there’s a lot of factors. The majority of this money is illegal so it really depends if/how it was invested and what in etc. a lot of these guys wealth was from soldiers, capos, associates doing work that kicked up to them so the second you lose your position or die that money is no longer coming in. Like anything sons and daughters would’ve enjoyed a good life, some would’ve spent the money. Some would’ve wanted to know where the hell it all went lol. As you move through generations unless you’re sitting on premium assets that money is going to distribute among kids grandkids etc and that 1m or more that was huge money in 1950 doesn’t mean a great deal now. Some of these guys who took big prison bids also would’ve lost a lot then. Flip side you have the gigante family who continue to have influence in the Genovese family and heavily on the docks and have built a nice family wealth line of sorts.

by **Pogo The Clown** » Wed Jan 15, 2025 9:47 am

Looks like Chicago was getting about an equal share to the other families. From Lonardo’s testimony.

Lefty" Rosenthal ran the skim operation in Las Vegas. Kansas City would get the money from Las Vegas and cut it up between themselves, Cleveland and Milwaukee. Rockman would travel to Kansas City or Chicago to obtain Cleveland's share. Rockman controlled the money and would cut it up with Scalish's and later Licavoli's approval. Bill Presser and Roy L. Williams received about $1500 a month for their role in the skim. The Cleveland family received a total of about $40,000 a month from the skim. Later, when a dispute arose in regard to the distribution of the skim between Milwaukee and Kansas City, Chicago settled the dispute and began receiving 25 percent of the skim. Chicago settled the dispute since Milwaukee and Kansas City answer to Chicago, the same way Cleveland answers to New York. To the best of my knowledge, the skim continued until at least 1984.

https://www.americanmafia.com/lonardo_testimony.html

by **Snakes** » Wed Jan 15, 2025 9:15 am

SonnyBlackstein wrote: ↑Wed Jan 15, 2025 8:56 am
Pogo The Clown wrote: ↑Wed Jan 15, 2025 6:17 am If Cleveland is any indication the Bosses probably didn’t see tens of millions from the Vegas skim (even adjusting for inflation) after they divided it all up. According to Angelo Lonardo Cleveland was getting 50 grand a month from the skim and that was split among several members and associates. The family also used the Vegas skim money to cover LCN related travel expenses and probably legal expenses as well. I’d imagine it was similar for the other families.
Surely Chicago would've been getting 20x the amount Cleveland were.

Did it ever come out in court how much money was being fleeced?

They were only able to prove in court that 1.6 million dollars changed hands, but they didn't need to document every transaction to prove the conspiracy or illegal activities.

by **SonnyBlackstein** » Wed Jan 15, 2025 8:56 am

Pogo The Clown wrote: ↑Wed Jan 15, 2025 6:17 am If Cleveland is any indication the Bosses probably didn’t see tens of millions from the Vegas skim (even adjusting for inflation) after they divided it all up. According to Angelo Lonardo Cleveland was getting 50 grand a month from the skim and that was split among several members and associates. The family also used the Vegas skim money to cover LCN related travel expenses and probably legal expenses as well. I’d imagine it was similar for the other families.

Surely Chicago would've been getting 20x the amount Cleveland were.

Did it ever come out in court how much money was being fleeced?

by **Pogo The Clown** » Wed Jan 15, 2025 6:17 am

SonnyBlackstein wrote: ↑Tue Jan 14, 2025 9:10 pm
sdeitche wrote: ↑Tue Jan 14, 2025 9:01 pm In 1957 Jerry Catena was drawing a salary of $57,000 a year (~560K now) from just one of the many companies he was a partner in. Not to mention income from the Vegas skim, gambling, and other sources.

On the skim he was making anywhere from $10K to $40K a month in the early 60s.
I always wondered what those Midwest bosses did with the millions they earnt on the skim. It would've been 10s of millions in today's money.
Have a little trouble claiming your fruit shop sold $10m of apples a year.

If Cleveland is any indication the Bosses probably didn’t see tens of millions from the Vegas skim (even adjusting for inflation) after they divided it all up. According to Angelo Lonardo Cleveland was getting 50 grand a month from the skim and that was split among several members and associates. The family also used the Vegas skim money to cover LCN related travel expenses and probably legal expenses as well. I’d imagine it was similar for the other families.

Pogo

by **PTown** » Tue Jan 14, 2025 11:35 pm

But here’s the thing: we live in a country with no shame, driven by a lust for fame. If any of those bosses had created generational wealth, don’t you think we’d know? Like the grandkid would be a social media influencer?

by **SonnyBlackstein** » Tue Jan 14, 2025 9:10 pm

sdeitche wrote: ↑Tue Jan 14, 2025 9:01 pm In 1957 Jerry Catena was drawing a salary of $57,000 a year (~560K now) from just one of the many companies he was a partner in. Not to mention income from the Vegas skim, gambling, and other sources.

On the skim he was making anywhere from $10K to $40K a month in the early 60s.

I always wondered what those Midwest bosses did with the millions they earnt on the skim. It would've been 10s of millions in today's money.
Have a little trouble claiming your fruit shop sold $10m of apples a year.

by **sdeitche** » Tue Jan 14, 2025 9:01 pm

In 1957 Jerry Catena was drawing a salary of $57,000 a year (~560K now) from just one of the many companies he was a partner in. Not to mention income from the Vegas skim, gambling, and other sources.

On the skim he was making anywhere from $10K to $40K a month in the early 60s.

by ng » Mon Jan 13, 2025 5:46 am

Personally I think the net worth is more important. I remember looking up the properties of one of the Ianniello kids and seeing about 47m in assets. My re license aint in new york tho so I cant claim to know the amount of remaining debt on them. Either way, if he kept these today id imagine that theyd be worth at least 60m. Even if his return on assets is 1%-2%, thats a pretty damn healthy cash flow.

Ive found a few trusts that the old bellomo crew seems to be connected to (if not partners in) with 200m in new build property.

Federicis family has a construction business that easily does 20m-40m a yr. Even if they net 5%, thats 1m-2m

The corrozzos are somehow connected to a major charter school builder in NY, although for the life of me i dont remember the name of it.

This is the high end of the spectrum tho imo- i never believe those bs bookmaking numbers.
The fbi takes the gross from superbowl week and multiplies it by 52, its all to get interdepartmental clout

by **JeremyTheJew** » Tue Jan 07, 2025 4:27 pm

Makes me think of in MOB BOSS by capeci

Little al said he was dead broke until he made capo. Once he made capo money was coming in from all over according to him.

This is also the mobs last of the good years (1990s I'd say)

Except we have seen situations like massino where the FBI relaxed and he built a whole family up.... But I doubt that's really going on

by **Brovelli** » Tue Jan 07, 2025 2:06 pm

Little_Al1991 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 07, 2025 3:46 am This thread comes to my mind viewtopic.php?p=268122&hilit=Joe+DeFede ... ss#p268122

In 2021, the Colombo admin were indicted for shaking down that labour union they were trying to get at least 10,000 per month from the union so I imagine that 5K would’ve went to Andy Russo as he is the boss and the rest of the money would’ve been whacked up between the Consigliere and the Underboss

Patty Dellorusso was making between 20 to 30k per month as a Capo in 2017

Those figures don’t exactly answer ur questions though it gives out a good idea that there is still money to be made when you are in the admin

Interesting looking back at the previous thread. My assumption would be that $6m is the amount that was kicked up to the administration. Not sure how else he would be able to quantify it beyond that. So if you take a random average that approx 10% of earnings are kicked up to the administration or whatever % you want to use you can approx what they’re making. Today who knows but every mobster i see indicted seems to be living a min middle class life in one of the most expensive metro areas in the world so im assuming a good number are earning at least $100k

by **Adam** » Tue Jan 07, 2025 11:51 am

Just as some historical numbers for Detroit, Vito Giacalone complained on a wire that he was only allowed to make $10,000 a month in the 1970s because he was in charge of the mobs numbers operation and wasn't allowed to do anything else. That's about $600,000 a year today. In the 1980s while Michael Polizzi was in prison and his son received his share of payments from the Combination, he was getting the equivalent of about $160,000 a year for doing nothing in prison. Just some historical stuff.

by **Little_Al1991** » Tue Jan 07, 2025 3:46 am

This thread comes to my mind viewtopic.php?p=268122&hilit=Joe+DeFede ... ss#p268122

In 2021, the Colombo admin were indicted for shaking down that labour union they were trying to get at least 10,000 per month from the union so I imagine that 5K would’ve went to Andy Russo as he is the boss and the rest of the money would’ve been whacked up between the Consigliere and the Underboss

Patty Dellorusso was making between 20 to 30k per month as a Capo in 2017

Those figures don’t exactly answer ur questions though it gives out a good idea that there is still money to be made when you are in the admin

by **PTown** » Mon Jan 06, 2025 11:37 pm

Ladies and Gentleman:

I’m curious if any of you have solid, factually based estimates of what mob leadership makes.

I don’t mean outliers, like “Michael Franzese made XYZ a week during the heyday of his incredibly lucrative gasoline scheme.” Like good scientists, let’s cast out the highest and lowest outliers.

I mean:

1. What do you think an average NY mob boss pulls down a year?
2. What about the next rung (UB, Consigliere)?
3. Average captains?

As a bonus prize, what percentage breakdown do you think comes from unique businesses (legal and illegal) versus other members paying up the chain?

For example, if you answer that a captain makes 500k, I’m curious what percentage comes from envelopes versus his own deals, legal or illegal.

Thank you?

THE BLACK HAND FORUM

Estimating the Income of Mob Brass

Post a reply

Expand view Topic review: Estimating the Income of Mob Brass

Re: Estimating the Income of Mob Brass

Re: Estimating the Income of Mob Brass

Re: Estimating the Income of Mob Brass

Re: Estimating the Income of Mob Brass

Re: Estimating the Income of Mob Brass

Re: Estimating the Income of Mob Brass

Re: Estimating the Income of Mob Brass

Re: Estimating the Income of Mob Brass

Re: Estimating the Income of Mob Brass

Re: Estimating the Income of Mob Brass

Re: Estimating the Income of Mob Brass

Re: Estimating the Income of Mob Brass

Re: Estimating the Income of Mob Brass

Re: Estimating the Income of Mob Brass

Estimating the Income of Mob Brass