THE BLACK HAND FORUM

Pmac2 wrote: ↑Sat Dec 14, 2024 11:56 am armone died in prison. Gallo made it out alive died shortly after....

Armone was the one the judge was gonna grant bail to if he admitted the existence of the mafia...The holidays were coming up and he wanted to spend a last one with his immediate family...He sent word to Gotti through his nephew Jackie the Actor asking permission...Which Gotti ultimately denied...

armone died in prison. Gallo made it out alive died shortly after....

Browniety86 wrote: ↑Sat Dec 14, 2024 6:41 am What about Joe N. Gallo? He never really did much time until the case that sent him and Piney away.

Gallo was offered a plea deal, he turned it down and died behind bars.
All he had to do was admit the existence of the Gambino family but didn’t want to (Gotti ordered him not to) but I think that if he was a CI, he would have done so.
The Bureau could have done something favourable for Gallo in court if he was a CI. Some sort of confidential move to stop from dying behind bars

No way, he was involved in too many murders

What about Joe N. Gallo? He never really did much time until the case that sent him and Piney away.

Feds would have disclosed it in Brady material or everyone gets a appeal. No way never happend. Feds would have told the courts or loose all there cases for covering for sammy. If he was telling before91 they would have disclosed it, it wouldn't have hurt there cases or Sammy as a witness

Nasabeak wrote: ↑Sat Dec 14, 2024 1:38 am

jmack wrote: ↑Sat Dec 14, 2024 1:28 am You could also add in the apartment above the ravenite. Someone gave that location up as the meeting place so the feds could place a bug, and Sammy was never caught in an incriminating conversation there (to my knowledge). That said, I think it’s unlikely. I think it would have come out on cross during trials. I also don’t believe that Sammy would be in a position to know about the 84 meeting. He wasn’t even a captain then. I like your thought process here but I just don’t think it’s true.

Well, in 84, we’d don’t necessarily know his position meaning, practically, day to day basis, not his on paper “rank”. He seemed to know enough to be relatively sure that Nino Gaggi was potentially on a hit list or that Angelo was on the hit list and NOT John. So he knew stuff. And being that he was even in 84 a construction guy, he might have known about a meeting regarding construction.

There’s a few (high level) guys I feel were possibly CI’s in 1984: Joe Watts, Sammy, possibly Frank Cheech, possibly Tommy Bilotti. Some of these are based on theories like I’ve outlined, some are based on previous fingering of such (Watts and DeCicco) and some are just gut feelings.

I think as the mob becomes less relevant into the future, one of the last great projects could be sleuths trying to identify which members were giving information to law enforcement and to what extent. I think there are a lot of people giving information that the casual mob watcher would never believe.

jmack wrote: ↑Sat Dec 14, 2024 1:28 am You could also add in the apartment above the ravenite. Someone gave that location up as the meeting place so the feds could place a bug, and Sammy was never caught in an incriminating conversation there (to my knowledge). That said, I think it’s unlikely. I think it would have come out on cross during trials. I also don’t believe that Sammy would be in a position to know about the 84 meeting. He wasn’t even a captain then. I like your thought process here but I just don’t think it’s true.

Well, in 84, we’d don’t necessarily know his position meaning, practically, day to day basis, not his on paper “rank”. He seemed to know enough to be relatively sure that Nino Gaggi was potentially on a hit list or that Angelo was on the hit list and NOT John. So he knew stuff. And being that he was even in 84 a construction guy, he might have known about a meeting regarding construction.

There’s a few (high level) guys I feel were possibly CI’s in 1984: Joe Watts, Sammy, possibly Frank Cheech, possibly Tommy Bilotti. Some of these are based on theories like I’ve outlined, some are based on previous fingering of such (Watts and DeCicco) and some are just gut feelings.

You could also add in the apartment above the ravenite. Someone gave that location up as the meeting place so the feds could place a bug, and Sammy was never caught in an incriminating conversation there (to my knowledge). That said, I think it’s unlikely. I think it would have come out on cross during trials. I also don’t believe that Sammy would be in a position to know about the 84 meeting. He wasn’t even a captain then. I like your thought process here but I just don’t think it’s true.

We all know Sammy famously flipped in 91, but is there any possibility he was a CI prior to then?

We know someone relatively high up in the Family gave up the 1984 Comission meeting. The Feds refer to this person as “Source G.”

People have speculated it was Frank DeCicco, but what if it was Sammy?

The Feds knew almost immediately Gotti was Boss. Within a day or two of Castellano’s murder.

They knew DiB was dead within a day or two of him going missing; they immediately were basically he was dead as opposed to being on the lam.

They knew things like that Castellano was considering naming Bilotti Underboss when Neil died as early as February 1985 - 10 months before Neil died.

This strikes me as such as a well placed, connected source who was in “Camp Castellano” circa 1984/1985.

Sammy even in 1989 was saying on the Ravenite bug that he was privy to a lot of Castellano’s conversations and inner thoughts.

For example, he was certain Paul was going to kill Angelo, not John; that the idea was that Angelo would be killed and Paul would try to con John into accepting it.

He approached Nino Gaggi and basically told him, as soon as the trial is over Paul is gonna clip you.

So, he was privy at least to that camp’s movements tbinking.

The kicker for me is that the 1984 Commission meeting was about construction matters - and, what was Sammy involved in even in 1984? Construction.

Sammy also NEVER did any real time. That’s odd ain’t it? Never. Even fuckin master rat Greg Scarpa did stints in jail. Sammy never did. Not until the 1990 bust, which then caused him to formally flip.

So, what do you think?