THE BLACK HAND FORUM

A lot of good Rochester info in this thread for those interested.


viewtopic.php?p=248000&hilit=Trigger#p248000

To NickleCity and B.: Thank you much for the information and the quick reply! Then, I was not that off target saying late 1968. I will have to re-read the Triangle Exit again.

Again, many thanks!

Regards,
BeatiPaoli

Not to digress too much from Rochester but Aiuppa was no doubt involved through Roy Carlisi, a former Chicago member who obviously kept close ties to Chicago given his brother and cousin were rising stars under Aiuppa at this time. Carlisi also had former Chicago affiliate Joe Sciales in his decina when he was a captain. So Fino didn't randomly insert Aiuppa into the story -- it makes complete sense the Buffalo faction consulted with him and that Aiuppa would take interest. I believe Ron Fino or maybe it was another source said Joe Fino was essentially just a puppet for Carlisi when he ran the Buffalo faction.

Going off memory, if I remember right Carlisi also supported Rochester breaking off and they attended meetings with him to that end. He gets overshadowed by the Pieri-DiCarlos, Fino, and the Frangiamore-Todaros in that Buffalo group but he seems to have been central to what was taking place, he just did so more quietly.

Joe Colombo's involvement also seems to be a pattern. Colombo and Carmine Persico both interacted with Buffalo members earlier in the 1960s and in the 1980s when Buffalo went to Tony Salerno with their issues he said Carmine Persico would be handling it. The Colombos went on to have members/associates in Utica as well.

Yeah 1968/69 is when the anti-Magaddino faction stopped recognizing Stefano as boss and established their own admins. Contemporary FBI reports basically match what Fino said. As late as the late 1970s an FBI informant, very likely a made guy, said Niagara Falls, Buffalo, and Rochester were still operating as their own groups with their own admin.

Frank Valenti was still a Pittsburgh member after returning to Rochester post-prison and subsequently transferred to Buffalo circa late 1964 then was soon if not immediately promoted to captain. By 1966 he was upset with Magaddino and reportedly told a source he might transfer to the Bonannos. Later a bunch of the main Rochester members were ID'd as Bonanno members and were carried on Bonanno lists into the 1980s, then much later you have Marotta inducting a guy and telling him they were under the Bonannos so there is something to the ongoing Bonanno references for over 30 years though you have to wonder who Valenti was originally talking to in the Bonannos or how that would have been arranged since the Bonannos were at war. At least one Rochester member did "cross the picket line" in the early 1980s and rejoined Buffalo.

Joe Pieri, who had become "boss" of the Buffalo faction after some of the bigger names stepped down, was identified as consigliere of the Buffalo Family by the early-mid 1980s and it seems the rival Buffalo / NF groups were unified by then although the Commission had to arbitrate the ongoing issues as late as 1984 and references to Rochester suggest they were still operating with their own boss. Rochester is harder to figure out as they descended into their own factionalism, may have been with the Bonannos in some capacity, and look to have considered themselves independent for even longer than the other factions.

Big factor in the apparent unification of Niagara Falls / Buffalo seems to have been the deaths of Joe DiCarlo Jr. , Sam Pieri, and Roy Carlisi of the Buffalo group (DiCarlo and S.Pieri were identified as capidecine under Joe Pieri in the late 1970s while Carlisi was listed as underboss) and the deaths / old age of the NF faction.

According to Ron Fino’s account in his book The Triangle Exit the renegade Buffalo and Rochester factions broke away in early 1969 and the Buffalo faction “installed” a hierarchy and quit paying tribute to Maggadino and his loyalist by April of 1969.

To Everyone: This may have already been addressed in some thread on this Forum, and, if it has, my apologies in advance for the repetition. I am interested to know a good, approximate, earliest date for the formation of the "Rochester Family", the earliest date it became "independent" from Buffalo. I use the "quotations" because I realize that the Rochester Family was never recognized by the Commission; however, it was recognized by the FBI, and mentioned a number of times as a separate Family on a number of those FBI listings of U. S. Families that get periodically published by newspapers from time to time.

To my mind, IIRC, there was a series of arrests in Buffalo in late 1968, where $ 400,000 in cash was found in the possession of a direct relative of Stefano Maggadino, which embarrassed him and the Family, and, again, IIRC, these arrests began an immediate cascade of events, including discussions ( ? at an farmhouse in upstate New York in early November 1968) to replace Maggadino as boss of the Buffalo Family and a subsequent "splitting off" of Rochester by the Valentis.

I am hoping the Mob Archeologists can provide a definitive date (as definitive as can be deduced when dealing with a secret criminal society). I have scoured all the appropriate Buffalo and Canada books and articles (as much as possible) and cannot find any source, informant or law enforcement agency that places an approximate date on the transition. I know from some of the texts and charts that Rochester was certainly considered an independent "Family" by the FBI by 1970. I believe it was earlier, late 1968, after those arrests and discussions.

Any information or insight would be greatly appreciated.

Regards,
BeatiPaoli