THE BLACK HAND FORUM

Angelo Santino wrote: ↑Sat Jun 15, 2024 3:24 am

Woofinator wrote: ↑Sat Jun 15, 2024 2:25 am

Angelo Santino wrote: ↑Thu Jun 13, 2024 11:05 am

B. wrote: ↑Wed Jun 12, 2024 1:12 pm With D'Aquila's election, Clemente said DiGaetano stepped down as capo dei capi in 1912 and the May 2014 article says this is when D'Aquila ascended to the position. I'm not sure if Clemente explicitly said D'Aquila was capo in 1912 (maybe Rick and Angelo can confirm) but it does appear to be around this time and the 1913 war looks to have been a response to D'Aquila's newfound power.

In Mar of 1912, there was a meeting between the groups and something big happened. It's not described but Clemente made some reference to the Terranovas "breaking off" from the DiGaetanos. A week later, DiGaetano formally steps down as Boss and Schiro replaces him. 3 weeks later in April, D'Aquila called a meeting of the groups and Lo Monte, Schiro and Mineo are mentioned. It appears the NY leadership met at the end of each month (or at least they did in this period of major changeover). Given all four of these names are first mentioned as bosses around the same thing leads me to believe that first meeting in Mar that DiGaetano presided over the election of new bosses and then once settled, stepped down a week later.

Mineo was based in Brooklyn as well. Do you think it's possible that Clemente could have been referring to Mineo's group separating from the Morellos instead of DiGaetano? With the Secret Service agent misunderstanding what Clemente was referring to and trying to clarify to his own boss, based on what he knew, who was the head of the Brooklyn group?

Likely not because Clemente didn't mention Mineo in that passage, only the Terranovas and DiGaetano. Mineo was on Oak Street in Greenpoint whereas DiGaetano and the Bonannos were further east in Williamsburg. Oak Street was smack dead in what was "South Brooklyn" which was Palermitan Gambino territory.

B. wrote: ↑Sat Jun 15, 2024 12:47 pm It is unlikely the Morello Family was officially part of the Bonanno Family but more likely answering direct to the capo dei capi in the absence of an official boss. In the Commission era when a Family did not have an official boss, especially if there was any kind you of disagreement in the Family, they had to answer directly to the Commission until any issues were settled and a new boss was elected. I assume a similar process played out earlier with the capo dei capi system.

So if that's true, the Morello Family didn't have an official boss or otherwise there were issues related to Morello's incarceration and in 1912 they were given full autonomy again and LoMonte was officially recognized.

B. wrote: ↑Sat Jun 15, 2024 12:47 pm It is unlikely the Morello Family was officially part of the Bonanno Family but more likely answering direct to the capo dei capi in the absence of an official boss. In the Commission era when a Family did not have an official boss, especially if there was any kind you of disagreement in the Family, they had to answer directly to the Commission until any issues were settled and a new boss was elected. I assume a similar process played out earlier with the capo dei capi system.

So if that's true, the Morello Family didn't have an official boss or otherwise there were issues related to Morello's incarceration and in 1912 they were given full autonomy again and LoMonte was officially recognized.

Woofinator wrote: ↑Sat Jun 15, 2024 2:25 am

Angelo Santino wrote: ↑Thu Jun 13, 2024 11:05 am

B. wrote: ↑Wed Jun 12, 2024 1:12 pm With D'Aquila's election, Clemente said DiGaetano stepped down as capo dei capi in 1912 and the May 2014 article says this is when D'Aquila ascended to the position. I'm not sure if Clemente explicitly said D'Aquila was capo in 1912 (maybe Rick and Angelo can confirm) but it does appear to be around this time and the 1913 war looks to have been a response to D'Aquila's newfound power.

In Mar of 1912, there was a meeting between the groups and something big happened. It's not described but Clemente made some reference to the Terranovas "breaking off" from the DiGaetanos. A week later, DiGaetano formally steps down as Boss and Schiro replaces him. 3 weeks later in April, D'Aquila called a meeting of the groups and Lo Monte, Schiro and Mineo are mentioned. It appears the NY leadership met at the end of each month (or at least they did in this period of major changeover). Given all four of these names are first mentioned as bosses around the same thing leads me to believe that first meeting in Mar that DiGaetano presided over the election of new bosses and then once settled, stepped down a week later.

Mineo was based in Brooklyn as well. Do you think it's possible that Clemente could have been referring to Mineo's group separating from the Morellos instead of DiGaetano? With the Secret Service agent misunderstanding what Clemente was referring to and trying to clarify to his own boss, based on what he knew, who was the head of the Brooklyn group?

Angelo Santino wrote: ↑Thu Jun 13, 2024 11:05 am

B. wrote: ↑Wed Jun 12, 2024 1:12 pm With D'Aquila's election, Clemente said DiGaetano stepped down as capo dei capi in 1912 and the May 2014 article says this is when D'Aquila ascended to the position. I'm not sure if Clemente explicitly said D'Aquila was capo in 1912 (maybe Rick and Angelo can confirm) but it does appear to be around this time and the 1913 war looks to have been a response to D'Aquila's newfound power.

In Mar of 1912, there was a meeting between the groups and something big happened. It's not described but Clemente made some reference to the Terranovas "breaking off" from the DiGaetanos. A week later, DiGaetano formally steps down as Boss and Schiro replaces him. 3 weeks later in April, D'Aquila called a meeting of the groups and Lo Monte, Schiro and Mineo are mentioned. It appears the NY leadership met at the end of each month (or at least they did in this period of major changeover). Given all four of these names are first mentioned as bosses around the same thing leads me to believe that first meeting in Mar that DiGaetano presided over the election of new bosses and then once settled, stepped down a week later.

Angelo Santino wrote: ↑Thu Jun 13, 2024 2:09 pm

B. wrote: ↑Thu Jun 13, 2024 1:47 pm

Angelo Santino wrote: ↑Thu Jun 13, 2024 11:06 am

blackhander wrote: ↑Tue Feb 13, 2024 5:23 am Thanks. Might be worth looking into further.

I think this is a different Sorrentino, but interesting to note.


ss.jpg

Benny Sorrentino I think his name was. Would like to find out his background, never had any luck with it. I always suspected him to be a mainlander and possible camorrista.

Wonder if he was related to the Prince Street Sorrentinos. That crew was made up heavily of guys from Marineo like the DiPalermos and other neighboring comuni, with reason to believe older relatives in the Prince Street crew were early NYC mafiosi. The Sorrentinos married into the DiPalermos and a couple of them got made but it would be interesting if there's a deeper history with them.

If he was that would certainly be odd given his statement that he was involved with the Terranova murder, which would put him on the side of Navy Street / Coney Island. If he's Marinese it wouldn't be the first, look at CdG Salvatore Costa, but it would certainly be surprising. "Various branches" screams camorra to me.

B. wrote: ↑Thu Jun 13, 2024 1:47 pm

Angelo Santino wrote: ↑Thu Jun 13, 2024 11:06 am

blackhander wrote: ↑Tue Feb 13, 2024 5:23 am Thanks. Might be worth looking into further.

I think this is a different Sorrentino, but interesting to note.


ss.jpg

Benny Sorrentino I think his name was. Would like to find out his background, never had any luck with it. I always suspected him to be a mainlander and possible camorrista.

Wonder if he was related to the Prince Street Sorrentinos. That crew was made up heavily of guys from Marineo like the DiPalermos and other neighboring comuni, with reason to believe older relatives in the Prince Street crew were early NYC mafiosi. The Sorrentinos married into the DiPalermos and a couple of them got made but it would be interesting if there's a deeper history with them.

Angelo Santino wrote: ↑Thu Jun 13, 2024 11:06 am

blackhander wrote: ↑Tue Feb 13, 2024 5:23 am Thanks. Might be worth looking into further.

I think this is a different Sorrentino, but interesting to note.


ss.jpg

Benny Sorrentino I think his name was. Would like to find out his background, never had any luck with it. I always suspected him to be a mainlander and possible camorrista.

blackhander wrote: ↑Tue Feb 13, 2024 5:23 am Thanks. Might be worth looking into further.

I think this is a different Sorrentino, but interesting to note.


ss.jpg

B. wrote: ↑Wed Jun 12, 2024 1:12 pm Thanks a ton for listening, man.

I'm not overthinking Attardi's info -- I just want to be conservative since we don't "know" for a fact he was referring to Mineo, but I am personally convinced he was referring to Mineo as there is no better candidate. So yeah, I am with you that Attardi was referring to Mineo and just wanted to present the idea objectively.

Great detail about Arrigo's son. In the episode I theorized that Arrigo could have been part of a small Palermitan mafia element in Galveston given the Maceos were later Palermitan mafia figures there, so Matteo's son being involved in gambling there is news to me and adds to this speculation.

With D'Aquila's election, Clemente said DiGaetano stepped down as capo dei capi in 1912 and the May 2014 article says this is when D'Aquila ascended to the position. I'm not sure if Clemente explicitly said D'Aquila was capo in 1912 (maybe Rick and Angelo can confirm) but it does appear to be around this time and the 1913 war looks to have been a response to D'Aquila's newfound power.