THE BLACK HAND FORUM

i think, again, I think the weasel has been proven to be a liar multiple times.

Almost makes sense the national commission kinda fragmented when gambino dies in 1976. He was the last old guy with more then a decade almost 20yrs on that seat. All the other NYC bosses where all new. Ray patriarca was locked up for most of tge 70tys. He didnt have a real vote anyway and was called into dispute sometimes like decavalacante and buffalino. I don't think there was a need for a national commission after that. Then you have joe massino testifying that last real commission meeting with the 5 nyc bosses or there acting bosses fat tony ect was 1984 when rusty was asking for his seat back.

[quote="Pogo The Clown" post_id=277605 time=1714651296 user_id=53]
To add more confusion Jimmy Frattiano claimed (via Roselli) that Philadelphia, Buffalo and Detroit lost their Commission seats in the mid 1970s (going from memory I think he said it was 1976). Taking in all the evidence I lean towards this being the case.


Pogo
[/quote]

Yeah Fratianno doesn't list a year, but in his book it's listed as he learned about it from Roselli in 1975-1976. That does not mean it happened then. But he claims he heard it then. He also lists Scalish as losing his seat on the commission so......lets take that into account as to how accurate Frattiano was. This is another one of those things where I don't trust Fratianno at all for the important things. I'm very harsh about Fratianno's statements on this forum for what I think are legitimate reasons. He heard a lot of gossip and passed it on as truth. That's my opinion. Then there were the blatant lies, but that's a whole other thing. :)

Philadelphia seat on Combaneesh after Angelo Bruno

[quote="Pogo The Clown" post_id=277605 time=1714651296 user_id=53]
To add more confusion Jimmy Frattiano claimed (via Roselli) that Philadelphia, Buffalo and Detroit lost their Commission seats in the mid 1970s (going from memory I think he said it was 1976). Taking in all the evidence I lean towards this being the case.


Pogo
[/quote]

That's the impression I've always been under.

The late 1976 meeting where the Colombo Family dispute was mediated by the Commission included NYC Families plus Chicago, no other Families mentioned. The member informant didn't mention the Gambinos and interestingly he did say the Bonannos were represented at the meeting by Carmine Galante but either way I don't think the timing is coincidental as this is the most likely period when the Commission was consolidated into just NYC and Chicago. Magaddino lost much of his power years earlier then died in 1974, Zerilli was on his way out, and Bruno's main proponent Carlo Gambino was dead or dying. Definitely organic reasons for them to lose their seats in addition to the national mafia as a whole beginning to fade, making nine seats pointless.

I don’t recall Frattiano saying this. Now I’m curious because the 76 date is significant. Gambino dies which was Bruno’s major ally. Zerrelli was supposedly semi-retired at that point and died the following year. Then the Buffalo internal strife had been going on since Maggadino’s death in 74.

My understanding has been the Philadelphia seat was removed in 80 when Bruno died. But I could be influenced by the sources above. The Scarfo alliance to me was always a business relationship between those two specific Families. Nothing that held National implications or importance.

To add more confusion Jimmy Frattiano claimed (via Roselli) that Philadelphia, Buffalo and Detroit lost their Commission seats in the mid 1970s (going from memory I think he said it was 1976). Taking in all the evidence I lean towards this being the case.


Pogo

In the book Mafia Prince, Phil Leonetti mentions that one of the reasons Funzi Tieri manipulated Caponigro to kill Angelo Bruno was the fact that Philadelphia's seat on the commission would be in favor of the Genovese family, as opposed to the connection between Bruno and the Gambinos.

In the same book, Leonetti also mentions that when Scarfo was in the position of boss, John Gotti, after removing Castellano, sought to get closer to Scarfo to enlist more support in the commission.

However, Jerry Capecci among others mention that after Angelo Bruno's death in 1980, Philadelphia lost its seat on the commission.

What is the real situation of Testa and Scarfo after the death of Angelo Bruno in the commission? Did they keep their seats or not?