THE BLACK HAND FORUM

by **Don Mosseria** » Sun Jan 28, 2024 4:16 am

Don Mosseria wrote: ↑Sat Jan 27, 2024 2:35 pm
Thanks Tony. You are always bang on it super fast with the genealogy man - much appreciated! I guess that makes him half-Italian, quarter-Irish, quarter-English by descent then. Weird he was nicknamed The German. Must be some story behind that… Cheers

I realised I didn’t quite think my fractions through here properly. Given that not only was Joe’s paternal grandmother, Ida Culhane, Irish, but his paternal grandfather’s mother, surname Slater, was born in Ireland, Joe could actually be 1/2 Italian, 3/8 Irish, 1/8 English. That said, generally, the name Slater would be English not Irish, which could lead to all kinds of speculation about British rule in Ireland at that time, etc. I am probably getting too bogged down in the weeds here

. Half-Italian, half-Irish/English, with an English surname. That will do.

by **Tonyd621** » Sat Jan 27, 2024 7:55 pm

I totally made that sh*t up.

by **Tonyd621** » Sat Jan 27, 2024 7:54 pm

He got his nickname "watts" because he was as smart as a lightbulb as a kid.

by **TSNYC** » Sat Jan 27, 2024 3:22 pm

PolackTony wrote: ↑Sat Jan 27, 2024 2:20 pm
Don Mosseria wrote: ↑Sat Jan 27, 2024 6:59 am Does anyone know Joe Watts’s ethnic background? His nickname is “The German”, but Anthony Ruggiano said on a recent podcast that he is English. Watts is an English name, not German. But that could be an Anglicisation. Wikipedia says he is Italian on his mother’s side, and German and Welsh on his father’s side (I think Watts is also a plausible name for a Welshman), but Wikipedia makes a lot of mistakes on this sort of thing. Any info appreciated - cheers!
I don't believe that he was German, at least not in terms of any recent ancestry. Joe Watts grew up in the Dongan Hills section of Staten Island, on Alter Ave. His mother was Caterina "Catherine" Billero, who was of Sicilian-Arbereshe ancestry, born in 1907 in Manhattan to parents from Piana dei Greci; the Billeros lived on the Eastside of Manhattan and then later moved to Bathgate Ave in the Bronx. Joe's father was John Francis Watts, born in 1901 in Manhattan to John Joseph Watts and Ida Culhane. John Watts Sr was born in the 1860s in NYC -- I believe that his father was English and his mother, surname Slater, was born in Ireland. If they were part Welsh or German at some point, I at least don't have any evidence for that. Ida Culhane was born in NYC to parents from Ireland.

John Francis Watts grew up on Madison St in Lower Manhattan but later worked as a truck driver for the piers in SI -- by 1950 he was working as a cab driver, and the Watts family lived at 306 Alter.

Awesome info, thanks for sharing!

by **Don Mosseria** » Sat Jan 27, 2024 2:35 pm

PolackTony wrote: ↑Sat Jan 27, 2024 2:20 pm
Don Mosseria wrote: ↑Sat Jan 27, 2024 6:59 am Does anyone know Joe Watts’s ethnic background? His nickname is “The German”, but Anthony Ruggiano said on a recent podcast that he is English. Watts is an English name, not German. But that could be an Anglicisation. Wikipedia says he is Italian on his mother’s side, and German and Welsh on his father’s side (I think Watts is also a plausible name for a Welshman), but Wikipedia makes a lot of mistakes on this sort of thing. Any info appreciated - cheers!
I don't believe that he was German, at least not in terms of any recent ancestry. Joe Watts grew up in the Dongan Hills section of Staten Island, on Alter Ave. His mother was Caterina "Catherine" Billero, who was of Sicilian-Arbereshe ancestry, born in 1907 in Manhattan to parents from Piana dei Greci; the Billeros lived on the Eastside of Manhattan and then later moved to Bathgate Ave in the Bronx. Joe's father was John Francis Watts, born in 1901 in Manhattan to John Joseph Watts and Ida Culhane. John Watts Sr was born in the 1860s in NYC -- I believe that his father was English and his mother, surname Slater, was born in Ireland. If they were part Welsh or German at some point, I at least don't have any evidence for that. Ida Culhane was born in NYC to parents from Ireland.

John Francis Watts grew up on Madison St in Lower Manhattan but later worked as a truck driver for the piers in SI -- by 1950 he was working as a cab driver, and the Watts family lived at 306 Alter.

Thanks Tony. You are always bang on it super fast with the genealogy man - much appreciated! I guess that makes him half-Italian, quarter-Irish, quarter-English by descent then. Weird he was nicknamed The German. Must be some story behind that… Cheers

by **PolackTony** » Sat Jan 27, 2024 2:20 pm

Don Mosseria wrote: ↑Sat Jan 27, 2024 6:59 am Does anyone know Joe Watts’s ethnic background? His nickname is “The German”, but Anthony Ruggiano said on a recent podcast that he is English. Watts is an English name, not German. But that could be an Anglicisation. Wikipedia says he is Italian on his mother’s side, and German and Welsh on his father’s side (I think Watts is also a plausible name for a Welshman), but Wikipedia makes a lot of mistakes on this sort of thing. Any info appreciated - cheers!

I don't believe that he was German, at least not in terms of any recent ancestry. Joe Watts grew up in the Dongan Hills section of Staten Island, on Alter Ave. His mother was Caterina "Catherine" Billero, who was of Sicilian-Arbereshe ancestry, born in 1907 in Manhattan to parents from Piana dei Greci; the Billeros lived on the Eastside of Manhattan and then later moved to Bathgate Ave in the Bronx. Joe's father was John Francis Watts, born in 1901 in Manhattan to John Joseph Watts and Ida Culhane. John Watts Sr was born in the 1860s in NYC -- I believe that his father was English and his mother, surname Slater, was born in Ireland. If they were part Welsh or German at some point, I at least don't have any evidence for that. Ida Culhane was born in NYC to parents from Ireland.

John Francis Watts grew up on Madison St in Lower Manhattan but later worked as a truck driver for the piers in SI -- by 1950 he was working as a cab driver, and the Watts family lived at 306 Alter.

by **TSNYC** » Sat Jan 27, 2024 8:11 am

He’s of Welsh descent I believe.

If I remember right, another big loan shark he had under him in Staten Island was Eddie fisher.

by **Don Mosseria** » Sat Jan 27, 2024 6:59 am

Does anyone know Joe Watts’s ethnic background? His nickname is “The German”, but Anthony Ruggiano said on a recent podcast that he is English. Watts is an English name, not German. But that could be an Anglicisation. Wikipedia says he is Italian on his mother’s side, and German and Welsh on his father’s side (I think Watts is also a plausible name for a Welshman), but Wikipedia makes a lot of mistakes on this sort of thing. Any info appreciated - cheers!

by **CornerBoy** » Fri Jul 08, 2022 7:28 am

Frankie Botts was his right hand man

by **funkster** » Fri Jul 08, 2022 6:40 am

According to Sammy in the early 80s Joe Watts was under Frankie DeCicco.

by **TSNYC** » Fri Jul 08, 2022 6:35 am

According to a govt filing in his case from 2000s, some other Watts loan shark associates were Jackie Smith, Bobby Henke, and Roger Ritch. Govt also had evidence that Watts, Jackie Smith, and Roger Ritch were trying to extort Phil Raccuglia, son of the funeral director. Phil Raccuglia was on record with the Genovese family through Sal DeMeo.

Other tidbits from filings:

In 2007 or 2008, Watts attacked Abe Berger, grabbing him by the neck and shoving him against a wall. Berger was unable to keep up with payments that Watts thought he was owed for a failed investment. In 2007, Watts sent a retired nypd detective to make threatening calls to a loan shark client, named Al Khatib.

by **Pmac2** » Thu Jul 07, 2022 6:51 pm

i think he was a staten island guy. i figured tommy bilotti was a brookln guy i was wrong him and his brother were raised on staten island. i forgot who they came up under but he introduced them to paul and they went with him probaly same with watts

by **TSNYC** » Thu Jul 07, 2022 4:49 pm

There’s not much info out there on him, at least very ljttle between 70s into mid 80s. I gather he was largely a SI guy given his connections to Bilotti Brothers and eventually coming under Paul.

by **cobra** » Thu Jul 07, 2022 3:59 pm

-involve in murder of nino inzerillo

by **Brogano** » Thu Jul 07, 2022 2:09 pm

Jeff doesnt mention where Watts grew up. We all know he lived on staten island and was under Paul but we dont know any of his background.

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