THE BLACK HAND FORUM

by **Angelo Santino** » Sat Jun 15, 2024 3:24 am

Woofinator wrote: ↑Sat Jun 15, 2024 2:25 am
Angelo Santino wrote: ↑Thu Jun 13, 2024 11:05 am
B. wrote: ↑Wed Jun 12, 2024 1:12 pm With D'Aquila's election, Clemente said DiGaetano stepped down as capo dei capi in 1912 and the May 2014 article says this is when D'Aquila ascended to the position. I'm not sure if Clemente explicitly said D'Aquila was capo in 1912 (maybe Rick and Angelo can confirm) but it does appear to be around this time and the 1913 war looks to have been a response to D'Aquila's newfound power.
In Mar of 1912, there was a meeting between the groups and something big happened. It's not described but Clemente made some reference to the Terranovas "breaking off" from the DiGaetanos. A week later, DiGaetano formally steps down as Boss and Schiro replaces him. 3 weeks later in April, D'Aquila called a meeting of the groups and Lo Monte, Schiro and Mineo are mentioned. It appears the NY leadership met at the end of each month (or at least they did in this period of major changeover). Given all four of these names are first mentioned as bosses around the same thing leads me to believe that first meeting in Mar that DiGaetano presided over the election of new bosses and then once settled, stepped down a week later.
Mineo was based in Brooklyn as well. Do you think it's possible that Clemente could have been referring to Mineo's group separating from the Morellos instead of DiGaetano? With the Secret Service agent misunderstanding what Clemente was referring to and trying to clarify to his own boss, based on what he knew, who was the head of the Brooklyn group?

Likely not because Clemente didn't mention Mineo in that passage, only the Terranovas and DiGaetano. Mineo was on Oak Street in Greenpoint whereas DiGaetano and the Bonannos were further east in Williamsburg. Oak Street was smack dead in what was "South Brooklyn" which was Palermitan Gambino territory.

by **Woofinator** » Sat Jun 15, 2024 2:25 am

Angelo Santino wrote: ↑Thu Jun 13, 2024 11:05 am
B. wrote: ↑Wed Jun 12, 2024 1:12 pm With D'Aquila's election, Clemente said DiGaetano stepped down as capo dei capi in 1912 and the May 2014 article says this is when D'Aquila ascended to the position. I'm not sure if Clemente explicitly said D'Aquila was capo in 1912 (maybe Rick and Angelo can confirm) but it does appear to be around this time and the 1913 war looks to have been a response to D'Aquila's newfound power.
In Mar of 1912, there was a meeting between the groups and something big happened. It's not described but Clemente made some reference to the Terranovas "breaking off" from the DiGaetanos. A week later, DiGaetano formally steps down as Boss and Schiro replaces him. 3 weeks later in April, D'Aquila called a meeting of the groups and Lo Monte, Schiro and Mineo are mentioned. It appears the NY leadership met at the end of each month (or at least they did in this period of major changeover). Given all four of these names are first mentioned as bosses around the same thing leads me to believe that first meeting in Mar that DiGaetano presided over the election of new bosses and then once settled, stepped down a week later.

Mineo was based in Brooklyn as well. Do you think it's possible that Clemente could have been referring to Mineo's group separating from the Morellos instead of DiGaetano? With the Secret Service agent misunderstanding what Clemente was referring to and trying to clarify to his own boss, based on what he knew, who was the head of the Brooklyn group?

by B. » Thu Jun 13, 2024 2:32 pm

Angelo Santino wrote: ↑Thu Jun 13, 2024 2:09 pm
B. wrote: ↑Thu Jun 13, 2024 1:47 pm
Angelo Santino wrote: ↑Thu Jun 13, 2024 11:06 am
blackhander wrote: ↑Tue Feb 13, 2024 5:23 am Thanks. Might be worth looking into further.

I think this is a different Sorrentino, but interesting to note.

ss.jpg
Benny Sorrentino I think his name was. Would like to find out his background, never had any luck with it. I always suspected him to be a mainlander and possible camorrista.
Wonder if he was related to the Prince Street Sorrentinos. That crew was made up heavily of guys from Marineo like the DiPalermos and other neighboring comuni, with reason to believe older relatives in the Prince Street crew were early NYC mafiosi. The Sorrentinos married into the DiPalermos and a couple of them got made but it would be interesting if there's a deeper history with them.
If he was that would certainly be odd given his statement that he was involved with the Terranova murder, which would put him on the side of Navy Street / Coney Island. If he's Marinese it wouldn't be the first, look at CdG Salvatore Costa, but it would certainly be surprising. "Various branches" screams camorra to me.

I don't think the Prince Street Sorrentinos were from Marineo and I'm not sure they were even Sicilian, point I'm making being that if there is a relation to this early Sorrentino they may have had their own underworld roots that later intersected w/ the Sicilians. There might be no relation though.

by **Angelo Santino** » Thu Jun 13, 2024 2:09 pm

B. wrote: ↑Thu Jun 13, 2024 1:47 pm
Angelo Santino wrote: ↑Thu Jun 13, 2024 11:06 am
blackhander wrote: ↑Tue Feb 13, 2024 5:23 am Thanks. Might be worth looking into further.

I think this is a different Sorrentino, but interesting to note.

ss.jpg
Benny Sorrentino I think his name was. Would like to find out his background, never had any luck with it. I always suspected him to be a mainlander and possible camorrista.
Wonder if he was related to the Prince Street Sorrentinos. That crew was made up heavily of guys from Marineo like the DiPalermos and other neighboring comuni, with reason to believe older relatives in the Prince Street crew were early NYC mafiosi. The Sorrentinos married into the DiPalermos and a couple of them got made but it would be interesting if there's a deeper history with them.

If he was that would certainly be odd given his statement that he was involved with the Terranova murder, which would put him on the side of Navy Street / Coney Island. If he's Marinese it wouldn't be the first, look at CdG Salvatore Costa, but it would certainly be surprising. "Various branches" screams camorra to me.

by B. » Thu Jun 13, 2024 1:47 pm

Angelo Santino wrote: ↑Thu Jun 13, 2024 11:06 am
blackhander wrote: ↑Tue Feb 13, 2024 5:23 am Thanks. Might be worth looking into further.

I think this is a different Sorrentino, but interesting to note.

ss.jpg
Benny Sorrentino I think his name was. Would like to find out his background, never had any luck with it. I always suspected him to be a mainlander and possible camorrista.

Wonder if he was related to the Prince Street Sorrentinos. That crew was made up heavily of guys from Marineo like the DiPalermos and other neighboring comuni, with reason to believe older relatives in the Prince Street crew were early NYC mafiosi. The Sorrentinos married into the DiPalermos and a couple of them got made but it would be interesting if there's a deeper history with them.

by **Angelo Santino** » Thu Jun 13, 2024 11:06 am

blackhander wrote: ↑Tue Feb 13, 2024 5:23 am Thanks. Might be worth looking into further.

I think this is a different Sorrentino, but interesting to note.

ss.jpg

Benny Sorrentino I think his name was. Would like to find out his background, never had any luck with it. I always suspected him to be a mainlander and possible camorrista.

by **Angelo Santino** » Thu Jun 13, 2024 11:05 am

B. wrote: ↑Wed Jun 12, 2024 1:12 pm Thanks a ton for listening, man.

I'm not overthinking Attardi's info -- I just want to be conservative since we don't "know" for a fact he was referring to Mineo, but I am personally convinced he was referring to Mineo as there is no better candidate. So yeah, I am with you that Attardi was referring to Mineo and just wanted to present the idea objectively.

Great detail about Arrigo's son. In the episode I theorized that Arrigo could have been part of a small Palermitan mafia element in Galveston given the Maceos were later Palermitan mafia figures there, so Matteo's son being involved in gambling there is news to me and adds to this speculation.

With D'Aquila's election, Clemente said DiGaetano stepped down as capo dei capi in 1912 and the May 2014 article says this is when D'Aquila ascended to the position. I'm not sure if Clemente explicitly said D'Aquila was capo in 1912 (maybe Rick and Angelo can confirm) but it does appear to be around this time and the 1913 war looks to have been a response to D'Aquila's newfound power.

I agree with you about Mineo - Mumbrao, it most likely is him but if it is or isn't is a very big deal and can potentially alter things.

In Mar of 1912, there was a meeting between the groups and something big happened. It's not described but Clemente made some reference to the Terranovas "breaking off" from the DiGaetanos. A week later, DiGaetano formally steps down as Boss and Schiro replaces him. 3 weeks later in April, D'Aquila called a meeting of the groups and Lo Monte, Schiro and Mineo are mentioned. It appears the NY leadership met at the end of each month (or at least they did in this period of major changeover). Given all four of these names are first mentioned as bosses around the same thing leads me to believe that first meeting in Mar that DiGaetano presided over the election of new bosses and then once settled, stepped down a week later.

by B. » Wed Jun 12, 2024 1:12 pm

Thanks a ton for listening, man.

I'm not overthinking Attardi's info -- I just want to be conservative since we don't "know" for a fact he was referring to Mineo, but I am personally convinced he was referring to Mineo as there is no better candidate. So yeah, I am with you that Attardi was referring to Mineo and just wanted to present the idea objectively.

Great detail about Arrigo's son. In the episode I theorized that Arrigo could have been part of a small Palermitan mafia element in Galveston given the Maceos were later Palermitan mafia figures there, so Matteo's son being involved in gambling there is news to me and adds to this speculation.

With D'Aquila's election, Clemente said DiGaetano stepped down as capo dei capi in 1912 and the May 2014 article says this is when D'Aquila ascended to the position. I'm not sure if Clemente explicitly said D'Aquila was capo in 1912 (maybe Rick and Angelo can confirm) but it does appear to be around this time and the 1913 war looks to have been a response to D'Aquila's newfound power.

by **Woofinator** » Fri Jun 07, 2024 2:08 am

Great podcast! Mineo is one of those characters that come off as interesting and it was great to learn more.

About the Attardi article, I think you're overthinking it. Manfredi Mineo also went by the nickname Al Mineo. Sal is a nickname for Salvatore. Attardi likely misremembered Al as Sal a couple of decades later and then helpfully gave the full first name Salvatore to the reporter.

I looked into Matteo Arrigo, before returning to Sicily in 1909 he had been a grocer living in Brooklyn. So it's possible he was a member of the Lupo grocery conspiracy that fled back to Sicily. Matteo's son Emanuel Arrigo was also busted for running an illegal casino in Galveston Texas in the 1950's.

Question, how do we know Salvatore D'Aquila was capo dei capi before the 1913 war and wasn't made capo dei capi after the temporary cessation of hostilities? Clarity on this point might help me to better understand the 1913 Secret Service report mentioning Mineo as the head of a gang.

by **blackhander** » Tue Feb 13, 2024 5:23 am

Thanks. Might be worth looking into further.

I think this is a different Sorrentino, but interesting to note.

ss.jpg

by **Antiliar** » Tue Feb 13, 2024 2:44 am

Additionally, I think it's likely that Locurto was a made member of the Morello borgata. I'm less confident about Liggio, but it's possible he was also. I wouldn't be surprised if he was related to Luciano Liggio. As for Sorrentino, I recall there was a Sorrentino in Brooklyn involved in counterfeiting who was mentioned several times in the Secret Service records. He could have been a relative.

by **Antiliar** » Tue Feb 13, 2024 1:08 am

Frank Locurto and Liggio likely both came from Corleone. I couldn't find their passenger manifests, so I couldn't confirm this, but many 19th century manifests didn't have that information anyways. Locurto was attacked in his saloon by an alleged Black Hander in 1908. The attacker, Salvatore Sorrentino, came from the area of 7th and Roebling in Brooklyn, in Cola Schiro territory. In court, Locurto said he misidentified him. There was another Frank Locurto who lived near Sorrentino, so it's possible it was a case of mistaken identity. Someone who fit the description of Sorrentino died of TB on October 8, 1917. He lived at 203 N 7th St. in Brooklyn. Other Sorrentinos who lived in that area came from Castellammare del Golfo.

by **blackhander** » Mon Feb 12, 2024 6:47 pm

There is not much to write up as the information is pretty thin, but this is what I found a while back:

445 E13th St Saloon

NOV 1900
Morello leased from Frank Locurto

DEC 1900
Gaetano Liggio the barman is arrested under excise law. (The bar is closed but the proprietor is seen eating and drinking with a friend in the back room.)

JUNE 1901
Morello conveyed to Gatetano Liggio (giving up the saloon so quickly fits in with the 1910 testimony)

JAN 1908
Saloon bombed (Black Hand). It’s back in ownership of Locurto.

by **Antiliar** » Mon Feb 12, 2024 2:13 pm

blackhander wrote: ↑Mon Feb 12, 2024 12:31 pm Thanks, I've moved that paragraph so as not to cause confusion. I looked into the history of a saloon on E13th St that Morello was involved with. The records closely match with Ciro's testimony, indicating he was pretty accurate with the list of business ventures that he mentions.

I'll check it out. I haven't looked into his E 13th Street saloon, so looking forward to reading what you found out. I noticed that when Morello was arrested in 1903 he said he owned several businesses and real estate, so he was already relatively well-off.

by **blackhander** » Mon Feb 12, 2024 12:31 pm

Thanks, I've moved that paragraph so as not to cause confusion. I looked into the history of a saloon on E13th St that Morello was involved with. The records closely match with Ciro's testimony, indicating he was pretty accurate with the list of business ventures that he mentions.

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