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Re: General Mob Questions

by johnny_scootch » Thu Apr 10, 2025 11:39 am

JeremyTheJew wrote: ↑Thu Apr 10, 2025 5:43 am Not the bonanno??
No, that’s the son Peter Pasta he was around Jerry Asaro.

Re: General Mob Questions

by JeremyTheJew » Thu Apr 10, 2025 5:43 am

johnny_scootch wrote: ↑Wed Apr 09, 2025 5:45 pm
JeremyTheJew wrote: ↑Wed Apr 09, 2025 12:20 pm How active was Robert Pellegrino???

He was in kitchen Nightmares with Gordon Ramsey.

https://youtu.be/umEgLp88eaQ?si=42zQkY41R9qwwaej
He was a bookmaker around the Genovese family, he made a nice living from it.
Not the bonanno??

Re: General Mob Questions

by johnny_scootch » Wed Apr 09, 2025 5:45 pm

JeremyTheJew wrote: ↑Wed Apr 09, 2025 12:20 pm How active was Robert Pellegrino???

He was in kitchen Nightmares with Gordon Ramsey.

https://youtu.be/umEgLp88eaQ?si=42zQkY41R9qwwaej
He was a bookmaker around the Genovese family, he made a nice living from it.

Re: General Mob Questions

by JeremyTheJew » Wed Apr 09, 2025 12:20 pm

How active was Robert Pellegrino???

He was in kitchen Nightmares with Gordon Ramsey.

https://youtu.be/umEgLp88eaQ?si=42zQkY41R9qwwaej

Re: General Mob Questions

by B. » Wed Apr 09, 2025 10:30 am

"Outfit" was also commonly used to refer to crews or groups of associates as well. It's an obvious and common euphemism for any organized group of individuals with no formal significance unto itself. You'll even see a legitimate business referred to as an "outfit".

The idea that a Family is different because someone referred to it as an "outfit" is like saying a Family is different because people sometimes called it a "borgata".

Re: General Mob Questions

by PolackTony » Tue Apr 08, 2025 8:08 pm

Manf wrote: ↑Tue Apr 08, 2025 4:58 am Have any members in Chicago or other parts of the country ever actually referred to called the family as Outfit or the Chicago Outfit or has it always been a media/law enforcement thing?
It’s not made up by the press or LE. We have member and associate sources that referred to the Chicago Family as “the outfit” since the 1960s, and the use clearly predated that time. But Chicago guys also used this term interchangeably with other terms like “the Family”, “the life”, “our people”, and “mafia”. LE and the press I believe were responsible for solidifying “outfit” as *the term* used for the Chicago mob, picking it up and amplifying it.

Also worth noting that that “the outfit” was in no way specific to Chicago either. It was used around the US by affiliates of many LCN Families in the same way: to denote a specific Family (“he was with the Bonanno outfit”), as well as a synonym for “Cosa Nostra” or “mafia” to denote the entire LCN phenomenon as a collective (“outfit guys from New York and Chicago ran things in Vegas”). I have documented many instances of its use among affiliates of Families all across the Midwest (e.g., Detroit guys actually mainly called their organization “the outfit”, not “The Partnership”, a term almost totally propagated by the press, etc.), to Los Angeles, Tampa, New England (e.g., informants like Whitey Bulger and Vinnie Teresa referred to the Parriarca Family as “the outfit”), and the NYC area (e.g., Genovese member George Barone repeatedly referred to his Family as “the outfit”, while Sam DeCavalcante was recorded using it frequently to refer to his own and NYC Families).

So, yes, it was in fact an insider term used by Chicago affiliates to refer to both LCN as a whole as well as their own specific Family. But the idea that this term solely and specifically denoted the Chicago mafia organization is a consequence of the ways that it got picked up and amplified by LE and the press.

Re: General Mob Questions

by Manf » Tue Apr 08, 2025 4:58 am

Have any members in Chicago or other parts of the country ever actually referred to called the family as Outfit or the Chicago Outfit or has it always been a media/law enforcement thing?

Re: General Mob Questions

by Proletarian187 » Mon Apr 07, 2025 6:56 am

motorfab wrote: ↑Mon Apr 07, 2025 5:31 am The photo is sometimes used on some sites (with no sources) to illustrate articles about the so call "Famiglia Vagabonda", a Black Hand group active in Fairmont West Virginia. There is a awful article about it on wikipedia (but withouth the pic) where they actually mixed-up several groups active there.

Anyway, I already try to look if it was reallly them on this pic but never manage to find out
Interesting. Thank you.

The mystery deepens, I did always think they look very cowboy-ish, (a lot of people did back then tho) but still assumed it was from Sicily. West Virginia was NOT on my shortlist.

Re: General Mob Questions

by motorfab » Mon Apr 07, 2025 5:31 am

The photo is sometimes used on some sites (with no sources) to illustrate articles about the so call "Famiglia Vagabonda", a Black Hand group active in Fairmont West Virginia. There is a awful article about it on wikipedia (but withouth the pic) where they actually mixed-up several groups active there.

Anyway, I already try to look if it was reallly them on this pic but never manage to find out

Re: General Mob Questions

by Proletarian187 » Mon Apr 07, 2025 4:42 am

PolackTony wrote: ↑Sun Apr 06, 2025 8:49 pm
Proletarian187 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 06, 2025 11:02 am A very specific question: Who are the group of men in the photo on the front cover of "Men of respect" by Raimondo Catanzaro?

I assume it's a cosce or part of one, all the men are pretty young which is interesting. Lots of mustaches of course. To me the mob died when they got rid of mustaches.

One of my favourite pictures ever.
Good question. I’ve wondered myself but have no idea. I don’t believe that the book ever states the source of this photo.
It does not, which is annoying as hell. I guess I have a project now. Identify the mustaches!

Re: General Mob Questions

by PolackTony » Sun Apr 06, 2025 8:49 pm

Proletarian187 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 06, 2025 11:02 am A very specific question: Who are the group of men in the photo on the front cover of "Men of respect" by Raimondo Catanzaro?

I assume it's a cosce or part of one, all the men are pretty young which is interesting. Lots of mustaches of course. To me the mob died when they got rid of mustaches.

One of my favourite pictures ever.
Good question. I’ve wondered myself but have no idea. I don’t believe that the book ever states the source of this photo.

Re: General Mob Questions

by Proletarian187 » Sun Apr 06, 2025 11:02 am

A very specific question: Who are the group of men in the photo on the front cover of "Men of respect" by Raimondo Catanzaro?

I assume it's a cosce or part of one, all the men are pretty young which is interesting. Lots of mustaches of course. To me the mob died when they got rid of mustaches.

One of my favourite pictures ever.

Re: General Mob Questions

by JeremyTheJew » Wed Mar 26, 2025 9:24 am

Saw Alto Knights the other day

Pretty decent I guess ....

Gonna wait another week before really discussing it bc it did cover a few things interesting and of course made Hollywood stories for a few others ...

Made gigante look like a absolute moron lol

Re: General Mob Questions

by Ivan » Thu Mar 06, 2025 11:35 pm

PolackTony wrote: ↑Thu Mar 06, 2025 11:15 pm
Ivan wrote: ↑Thu Mar 06, 2025 5:44 pm Can someone explain to me what the "street boss: of the Chicago Outfit does, and how he ranks vis a vis the boss and underboss?
No member source ever identified “street boss” as a position. Nick Calabrese mentioned no such thing in his 2007 testimony and the 2005 Federal indictments for the Family Secrets case, which laid out the organizational structure of the Chicago LCN Family made no mention of it either. Neither did the debriefing on Chicago LCN to Congress in the ‘80s by then Chicago FBI FO SAC Ed Hegarty.

A number of LE documents used “street boss” as well as “crew boss” to denote a captain of a crew. These were largely derived from intel from non-member CIs/CWs and reflect the casual usage on the street by non-member associates and those more peripherally connected to the mob. We know from several member sources, however, that within the actual Chicago LCN organization itself, this position was in fact called “capodecina/capo/captain”, same as anywhere else.

We know that in some other Families, “street boss” typically denotes a member who serves as something like a liaison between the boss/UB and the captains, as a further layer of insulation for the admin. This isn’t a formal position, but rather a role or set of responsibilities (similar to how Families might use a member as a liaison/“messaggero” to another Family, but that isn’t a formal position within the mafia organizational structure). Chicago may well at times have used a captain to act in this manner, but if so, we have no source that tells us they called this role “street boss”.

If you are referring to stuff like when Scott B refers to Albie Vena as “the street boss of the Chicago outfit”, then you’d need to ask him where he derived this from and what exactly he means by it, as I don’t have the slightest clue.
Yeah him, and a lot of other people. Was never able to find out what it meant, if anything. Thanks.

Re: General Mob Questions

by PolackTony » Thu Mar 06, 2025 11:15 pm

Ivan wrote: ↑Thu Mar 06, 2025 5:44 pm Can someone explain to me what the "street boss: of the Chicago Outfit does, and how he ranks vis a vis the boss and underboss?
No member source ever identified “street boss” as a position. Nick Calabrese mentioned no such thing in his 2007 testimony and the 2005 Federal indictments for the Family Secrets case, which laid out the organizational structure of the Chicago LCN Family made no mention of it either. Neither did the debriefing on Chicago LCN to Congress in the ‘80s by then Chicago FBI FO SAC Ed Hegarty.

A number of LE documents used “street boss” as well as “crew boss” to denote a captain of a crew. These were largely derived from intel from non-member CIs/CWs and reflect the casual usage on the street by non-member associates and those more peripherally connected to the mob. We know from several member sources, however, that within the actual Chicago LCN organization itself, this position was in fact called “capodecina/capo/captain”, same as anywhere else.

We know that in some other Families, “street boss” typically denotes a member who serves as something like a liaison between the boss/UB and the captains, as a further layer of insulation for the admin. This isn’t a formal position, but rather a role or set of responsibilities (similar to how Families might use a member as a liaison/“messaggero” to another Family, but that isn’t a formal position within the mafia organizational structure). Chicago may well at times have used a captain to act in this manner, but if so, we have no source that tells us they called this role “street boss”.

If you are referring to stuff like when Scott B refers to Albie Vena as “the street boss of the Chicago outfit”, then you’d need to ask him where he derived this from and what exactly he means by it, as I don’t have the slightest clue.

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