THE BLACK HAND FORUM

Reginald_III wrote: ↑Sat May 24, 2025 9:09 pm

B. wrote: ↑Fri May 23, 2025 5:22 pm

Reginald_III wrote: ↑Thu May 22, 2025 5:19 pm Was Carmine Galante ever made Consigliere or did he remain Caporegime until he was promoted to acting boss later on? I ask because the claim that he was made Consigliere is pretty out there but yet this post doesn't list him as Consigliere viewtopic.php?t=9307

The Gay Talese book refers to Galante as consigliere and even though the book involved collaboration with Bill Bonanno I don't believe that info came from Bill. In one of his own books I believe Bill referred to Galante as a "group leader" (the Bonannos' translation of capodecina in their books). Personally I suspect Galante was the "senior / top captain" in the 1950s -- a source in the early 1970s said Marangello had the role of "senior captain" who was assisting the admin in running the Family and later Lefty Ruggiero told Pistone that Napolitano was the "top captain", which was a designated role helping direct the Family. Another source said Galante had once been on a panel in the late 1950s. Because this "top captain" role seems to have been ongoing in the 1970s and early 80s, I can see it going back further.

So between the above info and what we know of Galante's activities in the 1950s, I think he was something like a "street boss", which is not an official rank, but it would explain Galante's obvious importance at the time and some of the confusion over him being an underboss, consigliere, etc. Keep in mind too his decina was massive and included members in basically every NYC borough, New Jersey, Upstate NY, and Canada. Joe Bonanno also lived much of the year in Arizona and Garofalo and Tartamella were in the process of retiring so the Family delegated a lot of authority to top underlings like John Morale, John Bonventre, and Carmine Galante.

I have an FBI report from 1974, shortly before Galante's release from prison, where he was identified as a capodecina which is interesting as his crew was officially taken over by other captains and also split multiple ways in the years after he went to prison. If true, it would indicate he was promoted to captain again before his release, maybe to pacify him. One thing I've never been totally clear on is whether Rastelli named him acting boss, whether he was voted into the position (the Bonannos voted on the new acting boss in 1981), or just assumed the role and everyone was forced to accept it. He is identified as the acting boss in reports from the mid-1970s and by the end of the decade you start to see sources call him the official boss which makes sense as Massino said he was told by Galante at his 1977 induction that Rastelli had been boss until the previous week but Galante was now the official boss. This wasn't recognized by the Rastelli faction nor the Commission, so Galante was not the official boss, but we know from Ruggiero's conversations with Pistone, Frank Coppa, etc. that certain factions of the Family saw him as the boss.

Sorry for the late response, 1960s~1970s Bonnano family has always been interesting to me. You're right though, Galante was a very influential member of the Bonnano family and that's why they tended to confuse him for underboss/consig,proof of this is just how many members were demoted after his assassination like Marangello, Pollastrino, Zaffarano, Sabella etc who were either under his crew at one time or connected to him. This is honestly my first timhe term top captain.I've just finished rereading DB a few weeks ago and don't get why Lefty mentioned the role of top captain to help direct the family because wasn't there an acting boss, ruling panel and Consigliere to do exactly that? Why is something like a top captain needed to help run the family then? I do want to read more on it if possible. From my understanding Galante was given acting boss position in 1976 after Rastelli went to prison and proclaimed himself boss around mid 1977 according to Joe Massino. Also that FBI report you mentioned if you're able to share it kindly do I would love to read it.

B. wrote: ↑Fri May 23, 2025 5:22 pm

Reginald_III wrote: ↑Thu May 22, 2025 5:19 pm Was Carmine Galante ever made Consigliere or did he remain Caporegime until he was promoted to acting boss later on? I ask because the claim that he was made Consigliere is pretty out there but yet this post doesn't list him as Consigliere viewtopic.php?t=9307

The Gay Talese book refers to Galante as consigliere and even though the book involved collaboration with Bill Bonanno I don't believe that info came from Bill. In one of his own books I believe Bill referred to Galante as a "group leader" (the Bonannos' translation of capodecina in their books). Personally I suspect Galante was the "senior / top captain" in the 1950s -- a source in the early 1970s said Marangello had the role of "senior captain" who was assisting the admin in running the Family and later Lefty Ruggiero told Pistone that Napolitano was the "top captain", which was a designated role helping direct the Family. Another source said Galante had once been on a panel in the late 1950s. Because this "top captain" role seems to have been ongoing in the 1970s and early 80s, I can see it going back further.

So between the above info and what we know of Galante's activities in the 1950s, I think he was something like a "street boss", which is not an official rank, but it would explain Galante's obvious importance at the time and some of the confusion over him being an underboss, consigliere, etc. Keep in mind too his decina was massive and included members in basically every NYC borough, New Jersey, Upstate NY, and Canada. Joe Bonanno also lived much of the year in Arizona and Garofalo and Tartamella were in the process of retiring so the Family delegated a lot of authority to top underlings like John Morale, John Bonventre, and Carmine Galante.

I have an FBI report from 1974, shortly before Galante's release from prison, where he was identified as a capodecina which is interesting as his crew was officially taken over by other captains and also split multiple ways in the years after he went to prison. If true, it would indicate he was promoted to captain again before his release, maybe to pacify him. One thing I've never been totally clear on is whether Rastelli named him acting boss, whether he was voted into the position (the Bonannos voted on the new acting boss in 1981), or just assumed the role and everyone was forced to accept it. He is identified as the acting boss in reports from the mid-1970s and by the end of the decade you start to see sources call him the official boss which makes sense as Massino said he was told by Galante at his 1977 induction that Rastelli had been boss until the previous week but Galante was now the official boss. This wasn't recognized by the Rastelli faction nor the Commission, so Galante was not the official boss, but we know from Ruggiero's conversations with Pistone, Frank Coppa, etc. that certain factions of the Family saw him as the boss.

Ivan wrote: ↑Fri May 23, 2025 7:49 pm

Camo wrote: ↑Fri May 23, 2025 7:40 pm The opinion i've came to over the years is none of these guys or Pablo Escobar or El Chapo or whoever were special at crime they were just around corruptible systems to varying degrees, if it wasn't them it would've been someone else.

Yah, and I've always thought that the idea that people like Luciano and Torrio were great industrialists in the vein of Carnegie or Rockefeller but they were just doing it as criminals was kind of dumb.

Camo wrote: ↑Fri May 23, 2025 7:40 pm The opinion i've came to over the years is none of these guys or Pablo Escobar or El Chapo or whoever were special at crime they were just around corruptible systems to varying degrees, if it wasn't them it would've been someone else.

B. wrote: ↑Fri May 23, 2025 6:56 pm Lombardozzi was lucky in general. His informant status became known in the street in the 1970s and Gambino member Frank Gagliardi was actively warning people that Carmine and his brother were both informants, which in Carmine's case was absolutely true. Somehow nothing came of it and guys like Michael DiLeonardo who became active in the same neighborhood a few years later only knew Lombardozzi as a respected old timer and earner, never heard anything about the informant rumor and found it shocking.

B. wrote: ↑Fri May 23, 2025 5:34 pm

Camo wrote: ↑Fri May 23, 2025 5:25 pm Makes sense. No Organization has one kind of punishment for every kind of offence. Even in more kill happy times there was a variety of offences and there was also certain guys who were less hittable than others so there had to be punishments for those situations like shelving.

A Boss's son probably fucked another members wife back in 1858 and they all agreed it was best just to shelve him.

Women have played a big role in certain members being shelved. You have Aiello and Anzalone shelved for not killing wives who cheated, Pete Casella (cousin of the infamous one) shelved for talking too freely to his wife, even an unnamed member of the Catania Family who was shelved for telling his wife too much. In more recent years Anthony Graziano was shelved because of his daughters' TV show.

Screwing a member's wife or daughter is breaking a cardinal mafia rule and punishable by death (unless someone goes to bat for him, i.e. Lombardozzi) but it makes sense members were shelved for examples like those above, as in those cases the member didn't commit a real infraction himself but still being unable to control the women in his life or otherwise not maintaining omerta with regard to women deserves some kind of punishment.

Camo wrote: ↑Fri May 23, 2025 5:25 pm Makes sense. No Organization has one kind of punishment for every kind of offence. Even in more kill happy times there was a variety of offences and there was also certain guys who were less hittable than others so there had to be punishments for those situations like shelving.

A Boss's son probably fucked another members wife back in 1858 and they all agreed it was best just to shelve him.

Reginald_III wrote: ↑Thu May 22, 2025 5:19 pm Was Carmine Galante ever made Consigliere or did he remain Caporegime until he was promoted to acting boss later on? I ask because the claim that he was made Consigliere is pretty out there but yet this post doesn't list him as Consigliere viewtopic.php?t=9307

SonnyBlackstein wrote: ↑Thu May 22, 2025 10:28 pm Is putting members on the shelf a recent phenom?

Was this ever done in the 30's/40's/50's? The 70's?
I know the shelving has replaced clipping, but Im wondering if it was still a thing back in the day as an intermediary step before clipping or an alternate for a popular member.

I guess I could ask the same as chasing. Were members ever chased back in the day?

Or are these actions only recent on the scene as hitting guys draws too much heat?