by chin_gigante » Fri Sep 29, 2023 2:40 pm
johnny_scootch wrote: ↑Fri Sep 29, 2023 4:35 am
chin_gigante wrote: ↑Thu Sep 28, 2023 11:44 pm
Would also depend if the Lucchese family approved the inductions of Scarfo Jr's guys or if it was just Scarfo Sr who gave the okay. On the Stefanelli tapes, they talk about Scarfo Jr trying to recruit Philly guys to his side, like Joey Grande. They talk about how Scarfo Jr offered to make Grande a captain and clarify that he wasn't talking about a captain with the Lucchese family, but rather a captain under his father Scarfo Sr.
You know what Chin maybe I have it all mixed up but I thought Scarfo Jr made Persiano but it was considered invalid and so the Lucchese family wanting to keep Scarfo’s guys made him officially into their family. Then he gets transferred to Philly but instead of just introducing him around as a friend in their family they actually make him go through another ceremony needlessly.
I think there's a decent argument to be made that Pelullo, Persiano, and Scarfo could have originally been inducted as unrecognised Philadelphia family members who still regarded Scarfo Sr as the boss.
In 2019, in one of their Mob Talk Sitdowns, Anastasia and Schratwieser discussed the original ceremony and they noted some interesting things that could support this theory:
- The ceremony took place in the late 2000s
- Four guys were inducted, including Pelullo, Persiano, and Piccolo
- The inductions were approved by Scarfo Sr from behind bars
- Induction was a reward for their involvement in the First Plus scam
- The ceremony was conducted by an "old timer"
- Schratwieser initially says they were made into the Lucchese family but Anastasia steps in and says it's not clear if they were made with the Lucchese family, the Philadelphia family, or just "in their own mind"
These segments from the Stefanelli tapes also makes it clear Scarfo Jr was trying to recruit Joey Grande by telling him Scarfo Sr was still the boss of the Philadelphia family and that the Merlino-Ligambi administration wasn't recognised:
SL: What they said to JOE GRANDE, and, they gave him this 700…
LF: They told him…
SL: JOE, you’re on the wrong side. We’re the guys.
LF: You’re on the wrong side. We’re the guys, that them guys ain’t being recognised. So ANTHONY was mad because of that. We said ANT, don’t be mad, ‘cause of that, ‘cause he’s only telling what he’s being told.
NS: (UI)
LF: We weren’t being recognised by them.
SL: Yeah. And we don’t care. And I told yous that. I said…
[…]
SL: I said nobody’s payin’ ‘em any mind. And forget about it, I says. I said, first of all, they gave JOEY 700. I said, you know, that’s why I wanna see JOEY. ‘Cause JOEY said to them, eh, JOEY was honest. He said, listen, I met them at (UI), ‘cause JOEY made, ah, LANCE come or whatever, and he introduced ‘em, and this and that. Follow me? I met them, they got their own thing. That’s why I wanna see JOE and tell JOE, don’t let them brainwash ya. Don’t meet them no more. I know JOE LIGAMBI. When you go there for the first time, they give ya spin, ‘cause he wanted to get some money off ‘em. They gave him shit. Tell ‘em to stick their money up their ass. You got nuttin’. You’re here. We’re all one, and that’s it. Now we’re, where’s he going now? Now, it’s all over with?
LF: NICKY told, NICKY told him… Listen, who the fuck is NICKY to say what he’s gonna do for him…
SL: Yeah.
LF: …all he says, I’m, I’ll, You know, we’ll make you, and he wasn’t talking about makin’ with the LUCCHESE.
SL: Yeah. I’ll make you a captain with my father.
LF: With us. But he says he’ll make you a captain with my father…
Then there's this part from the 2015 ceremony:
ML: You’ll all get introduced. You’ll get introduced to everybody. But ah we’re all one family. This is the only flag around. This is it, this is Philly and that’s it. Joe, do you want to say something? Anybody want to say anything?
I could be wrong, but it seems to me Lancellotti is basically saying there that this is the only Philadelphia family and forget anyone else who claims to be (i.e. Scarfo). It reminds me of when Ralph Natale was caught on tape in the late 1990s when Scarfo was first trying to re-assert his authority: "The kid who runs it [the Genovese family] now told him [Scarfo] there's only one boss in Philadelphia, and that's Ralph Natale. And that's where the fuck it's at."
Also if they were originally made as part of an unrecognised Scarfo faction, it would explain why they were re-inducted rather than just transferred.
[quote=johnny_scootch post_id=268261 time=1695987312 user_id=105]
[quote=chin_gigante post_id=268254 time=1695969860 user_id=5708]
Would also depend if the Lucchese family approved the inductions of Scarfo Jr's guys or if it was just Scarfo Sr who gave the okay. On the Stefanelli tapes, they talk about Scarfo Jr trying to recruit Philly guys to his side, like Joey Grande. They talk about how Scarfo Jr offered to make Grande a captain and clarify that he wasn't talking about a captain with the Lucchese family, but rather a captain under his father Scarfo Sr.
[/quote]
You know what Chin maybe I have it all mixed up but I thought Scarfo Jr made Persiano but it was considered invalid and so the Lucchese family wanting to keep Scarfo’s guys made him officially into their family. Then he gets transferred to Philly but instead of just introducing him around as a friend in their family they actually make him go through another ceremony needlessly.
[/quote]
I think there's a decent argument to be made that Pelullo, Persiano, and Scarfo could have originally been inducted as unrecognised Philadelphia family members who still regarded Scarfo Sr as the boss.
In 2019, in one of their Mob Talk Sitdowns, Anastasia and Schratwieser discussed the original ceremony and they noted some interesting things that could support this theory:
- The ceremony took place in the late 2000s
- Four guys were inducted, including Pelullo, Persiano, and Piccolo
- The inductions were approved by Scarfo Sr from behind bars
- Induction was a reward for their involvement in the First Plus scam
- The ceremony was conducted by an "old timer"
- Schratwieser initially says they were made into the Lucchese family but Anastasia steps in and says it's not clear if they were made with the Lucchese family, the Philadelphia family, or just "in their own mind"
These segments from the Stefanelli tapes also makes it clear Scarfo Jr was trying to recruit Joey Grande by telling him Scarfo Sr was still the boss of the Philadelphia family and that the Merlino-Ligambi administration wasn't recognised:
[quote]SL: What they said to JOE GRANDE, and, they gave him this 700…
LF: They told him…
SL: [b]JOE, you’re on the wrong side. We’re the guys.[/b]
LF: [b]You’re on the wrong side. We’re the guys, that them guys ain’t being recognised.[/b] So ANTHONY was mad because of that. We said ANT, don’t be mad, ‘cause of that, ‘cause he’s only telling what he’s being told.
NS: (UI)
LF: We weren’t being recognised by them.
SL: Yeah. And we don’t care. And I told yous that. I said…
[…]
SL: I said nobody’s payin’ ‘em any mind. And forget about it, I says. I said, first of all, they gave JOEY 700. I said, you know, that’s why I wanna see JOEY. ‘Cause JOEY said to them, eh, JOEY was honest. He said, listen, I met them at (UI), ‘cause JOEY made, ah, LANCE come or whatever, and he introduced ‘em, and this and that. Follow me? I met them, they got their own thing. That’s why I wanna see JOE and tell JOE, don’t let them brainwash ya. Don’t meet them no more. I know JOE LIGAMBI. When you go there for the first time, they give ya spin, ‘cause he wanted to get some money off ‘em. They gave him shit. Tell ‘em to stick their money up their ass. You got nuttin’. You’re here. We’re all one, and that’s it. Now we’re, where’s he going now? Now, it’s all over with?
LF: NICKY told, NICKY told him… Listen, who the fuck is NICKY to say what he’s gonna do for him…
SL: Yeah.
LF: …all he says, I’m, I’ll, You know, [b]we’ll make you, and he wasn’t talking about makin’ with the LUCCHESE.[/b]
SL: [b]Yeah. I’ll make you a captain with my father.[/b]
LF: [b]With us. But he says he’ll make you a captain with my father…[/b][/quote]
Then there's this part from the 2015 ceremony:
[quote]ML: You’ll all get introduced. You’ll get introduced to everybody. [b]But ah we’re all one family. This is the only flag around. This is it, this is Philly and that’s it.[/b] Joe, do you want to say something? Anybody want to say anything?[/quote]
I could be wrong, but it seems to me Lancellotti is basically saying there that this is the only Philadelphia family and forget anyone else who claims to be (i.e. Scarfo). It reminds me of when Ralph Natale was caught on tape in the late 1990s when Scarfo was first trying to re-assert his authority: "The kid who runs it [the Genovese family] now told him [Scarfo] there's only one boss in Philadelphia, and that's Ralph Natale. And that's where the fuck it's at."
Also if they were originally made as part of an unrecognised Scarfo faction, it would explain why they were re-inducted rather than just transferred.