"They only kill each other"

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Re: "They only kill each other"

by CabriniGreen » Sun Sep 24, 2023 12:12 am

Ivan wrote: ↑Sat Sep 23, 2023 8:10 am
CabriniGreen wrote: ↑Fri Sep 22, 2023 11:32 pm
Ivan wrote: ↑Fri Sep 22, 2023 8:14 pm
SonnyBlackstein wrote: ↑Fri Sep 22, 2023 11:31 am My position, if you 'have' to have OC. The mafia is the 'most moral'.

Give me Italian LCN vs MS13.
Twice on Saturdays.
People will say this is a myth but that doesn't really hold up IMHO.

Other than extreme outliers like Roy DeMeo, it's basically true, even if they are that way entirely for PR purposes.

I would phrase it as "least immoral" though.



Hard disagree. The Mafia is about Power, and the pursuit of Power is incompatible with an adherance to morality. IMO the people who think that follow dont see the big picture... and really love the movies and TV shows. They are like the guy who got his car stolen in the Italy episode on Sopranos....

Perfect example is Micalizzi in Sicily. They give the Ricobonno family back a sizable fortune in real estate held in a holding company, after being held by the State for 20 years. They placed the fortune in the hands of Micalizzi and he starts up heroin importation from Iran and Turkey, and organizes all the drug squares in Palermo.

I understand why the broke gang member, immigrant, or generally poor person gets involved... but these people could have done anything....why not produce? Or wine? Cheese and breads? The Inzerillos were caught trying to find a farm they could use as outlet for State farm subsidies. They coulda went for something like that..... maybe they did as well...

The Mafia is not a military, or a country, OR a financial institution, though it mimics aspects of each.

If Italy had to go to war, and they had to depend on the fuckin Mafia, they would sell out the country for who knows what...
Was referring to the American Cosa Nostra, which seems in practice if not in spirit the least horrific of all organized crime groups in the world, including the Italians-in-Italy groups.

They're still scumbags, don't get me wrong, but they only very occasionally murder innocent people, instead of routinely.
After the 80s.. they did calm down a lot. That Camuso/ Mannino indictment, that construction racketeering...

Thats where the mob wants to be in 2023. Brokering contracts, legit businesses, pay your taxes...lol

Re: "They only kill each other"

by Ivan » Sat Sep 23, 2023 8:10 am

CabriniGreen wrote: ↑Fri Sep 22, 2023 11:32 pm
Ivan wrote: ↑Fri Sep 22, 2023 8:14 pm
SonnyBlackstein wrote: ↑Fri Sep 22, 2023 11:31 am My position, if you 'have' to have OC. The mafia is the 'most moral'.

Give me Italian LCN vs MS13.
Twice on Saturdays.
People will say this is a myth but that doesn't really hold up IMHO.

Other than extreme outliers like Roy DeMeo, it's basically true, even if they are that way entirely for PR purposes.

I would phrase it as "least immoral" though.



Hard disagree. The Mafia is about Power, and the pursuit of Power is incompatible with an adherance to morality. IMO the people who think that follow dont see the big picture... and really love the movies and TV shows. They are like the guy who got his car stolen in the Italy episode on Sopranos....

Perfect example is Micalizzi in Sicily. They give the Ricobonno family back a sizable fortune in real estate held in a holding company, after being held by the State for 20 years. They placed the fortune in the hands of Micalizzi and he starts up heroin importation from Iran and Turkey, and organizes all the drug squares in Palermo.

I understand why the broke gang member, immigrant, or generally poor person gets involved... but these people could have done anything....why not produce? Or wine? Cheese and breads? The Inzerillos were caught trying to find a farm they could use as outlet for State farm subsidies. They coulda went for something like that..... maybe they did as well...

The Mafia is not a military, or a country, OR a financial institution, though it mimics aspects of each.

If Italy had to go to war, and they had to depend on the fuckin Mafia, they would sell out the country for who knows what...
Was referring to the American Cosa Nostra, which seems in practice if not in spirit the least horrific of all organized crime groups in the world, including the Italians-in-Italy groups.

They're still scumbags, don't get me wrong, but they only very occasionally murder innocent people, instead of routinely.

Re: "They only kill each other"

by CabriniGreen » Fri Sep 22, 2023 11:32 pm

Ivan wrote: ↑Fri Sep 22, 2023 8:14 pm
SonnyBlackstein wrote: ↑Fri Sep 22, 2023 11:31 am My position, if you 'have' to have OC. The mafia is the 'most moral'.

Give me Italian LCN vs MS13.
Twice on Saturdays.
People will say this is a myth but that doesn't really hold up IMHO.

Other than extreme outliers like Roy DeMeo, it's basically true, even if they are that way entirely for PR purposes.

I would phrase it as "least immoral" though.



Hard disagree. The Mafia is about Power, and the pursuit of Power is incompatible with an adherance to morality. IMO the people who think that follow dont see the big picture... and really love the movies and TV shows. They are like the guy who got his car stolen in the Italy episode on Sopranos....

Perfect example is Micalizzi in Sicily. They give the Ricobonno family back a sizable fortune in real estate held in a holding company, after being held by the State for 20 years. They placed the fortune in the hands of Micalizzi and he starts up heroin importation from Iran and Turkey, and organizes all the drug squares in Palermo.

I understand why the broke gang member, immigrant, or generally poor person gets involved... but these people could have done anything....why not produce? Or wine? Cheese and breads? The Inzerillos were caught trying to find a farm they could use as outlet for State farm subsidies. They coulda went for something like that..... maybe they did as well...

The Mafia is not a military, or a country, OR a financial institution, though it mimics aspects of each.

If Italy had to go to war, and they had to depend on the fuckin Mafia, they would sell out the country for who knows what...

Re: "They only kill each other"

by Ivan » Fri Sep 22, 2023 8:14 pm

SonnyBlackstein wrote: ↑Fri Sep 22, 2023 11:31 am My position, if you 'have' to have OC. The mafia is the 'most moral'.

Give me Italian LCN vs MS13.
Twice on Saturdays.
People will say this is a myth but that doesn't really hold up IMHO.

Other than extreme outliers like Roy DeMeo, it's basically true, even if they are that way entirely for PR purposes.

I would phrase it as "least immoral" though.

Re: "They only kill each other"

by SonnyBlackstein » Fri Sep 22, 2023 11:31 am

My position, if you 'have' to have OC. The mafia is the 'most moral'.

Give me Italian LCN vs MS13.
Twice on Saturdays.

Re: "They only kill each other"

by SonnyBlackstein » Fri Sep 22, 2023 11:30 am

They're bad people. But they're our bad people.

Re: "They only kill each other"

by DonPeppino386 » Fri Sep 22, 2023 11:16 am

NothingNew44 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 20, 2023 8:15 pm You get what you signed up for. There’s nothing glamorous or especially honorable about killing your “friends.” To me these individuals willingly accept the potential consequences that are intrinsic to that way of life. Which is why I generally don’t view the internal mafia violence the same way I would a random act against an innocent person. I definitely don’t view it in the same light as a service-member dying in war. These dudes are criminals.
Well said and a difference that I was remiss not to discuss in my response. The reasoning for killing or dying between militaries and the mafia are completely different things.

Re: "They only kill each other"

by DonPeppino386 » Fri Sep 22, 2023 11:11 am

B. wrote: ↑Wed Sep 20, 2023 5:26 pm Mafiosi do hurt people outside of the life, be they intentional targets, collateral damage, or family/friends of the victims. However, it is generally true throughout mafia history that they mostly hurt each other.

This is a philosophical question maybe, but how do you feel about the idea of someone who believes in the mafia being killed by the mafia? Is it comparable to soldiers dying in the theater of war? Is it comparable to someone being executed by the state? As someone obsessed with this subject, do you view the mafia's internal violence the same way you would other violent crime committed by "ordinary" criminals?
Good food for thought Eric, and something that I ponder often. I think when someone enters willingly into a way of life that comes attached with certain rules there is somewhat of a "you know what you signed up for" thought for me. They are willing participants. It does have a good amount of parallels to war. A big difference is that people in "the life" have choices to adopt that way of life. In a lot of military conflicts, there is mandatory service which could include taking the life of stranger.

Re: "They only kill each other"

by slimshady_007 » Wed Sep 20, 2023 8:22 pm

The Italian criminal were always especially treacherous but that helped them survive.

Re: "They only kill each other"

by NothingNew44 » Wed Sep 20, 2023 8:15 pm

You get what you signed up for. There’s nothing glamorous or especially honorable about killing your “friends.” To me these individuals willingly accept the potential consequences that are intrinsic to that way of life. Which is why I generally don’t view the internal mafia violence the same way I would a random act against an innocent person. I definitely don’t view it in the same light as a service-member dying in war. These dudes are criminals.

Re: "They only kill each other"

by funkster » Wed Sep 20, 2023 5:35 pm

I generally think it's the same as any other violent crime, despite what they themselves say it is. Having said that, I do think there is something to the idea that they know the life and signed up for it, their internal rules and punishments are theirs and they should expect the severity.

"They only kill each other"

by B. » Wed Sep 20, 2023 5:26 pm

Mafiosi do hurt people outside of the life, be they intentional targets, collateral damage, or family/friends of the victims. However, it is generally true throughout mafia history that they mostly hurt each other.

This is a philosophical question maybe, but how do you feel about the idea of someone who believes in the mafia being killed by the mafia? Is it comparable to soldiers dying in the theater of war? Is it comparable to someone being executed by the state? As someone obsessed with this subject, do you view the mafia's internal violence the same way you would other violent crime committed by "ordinary" criminals?

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