THE BLACK HAND FORUM

Stroccos wrote: ↑Thu Jun 27, 2024 12:55 pm Borgata no interest is going there , maybe the food is good? , never heard anyone really talk about it ,
everyone is pretty much dead now anyways ,

No don’t want it spread all over the internet family members is in the photo who are still alive , if they died before me then I will post it

Stroccos wrote: ↑Thu Jun 27, 2024 12:55 pm

Newyorkempire wrote: ↑Thu Jun 27, 2024 11:53 am

Stroccos wrote: ↑Thu Jun 27, 2024 11:49 am

Ivan wrote: ↑Wed Jun 26, 2024 11:30 am

Angelo Santino wrote: ↑Wed Jun 26, 2024 4:01 am

Ivan wrote: ↑Wed Jun 26, 2024 3:11 am

Angelo Santino wrote: ↑Wed Jun 26, 2024 2:49 am If these two groups have any connections whatsoever (even down to a Colombo using a laundrymat that Buffalo owns), there would be formal introductions made, that's the mafia at play as a network. It's not exciting or sexy. It's as simple and easy as a Buffalo member attending a Gambino party and encountering one of the few remaining New Orleans' members (or a Chicago member or a Philly member, take your pick). They'll be formally introduced as brothers and what, if anything, they decide to do is their own business.

A very knowledgeable and reliable source has told me that Russell Papalardo in Cleveland still enjoys this sort of treatment as a "brother" in this way by other mafia figures and Cleveland is still regarded as "represented" amid mafia matters by him even though the family is defunct and he's the only made guy still living.

It's truly the essence of what makes the mafia the mafia. If criminality were the sole factor "the Italians" would have died out long ago.

One of the more mind-blowing epiphanies I've had about the mafia is that the reflexive and cynical they're-just-after-money take on the mafia, while having a grain of truth to it, is for the most part pseudo-sophisticated bullshit, while the corny Joe Bonanno thing about it being an old tradition of brotherhood/honor/respect is more or less true.

But when you think of it as a network, what incentive is there to let it die? That could equate to keeping communication with Chicago, Detroit, Buffalo, Pittsburgh (if there is anything left) and New York. It doesn't have to be Papalardo plotting to "rebuild" (ie a Family structure complete with captains with Moltistanti-style grunt 'made men') which is what most outsiders would expect and in fact, would argue he's nonviable if he doesn't.

Cleveland is a really fascinating example of the network that encompasses associates, legit businessmen, labor, unmade criminals etc. surviving the family's "death." What was once a "structured crime family" has evolved into a network of shady but mostly legit guys centered on a certain staffing agency, with a lot of familiar surnames popping up if you examine who's a part of that network.

Anyway, I would be shocked if Papalardo and Todaro were not personally acquainted, given the above factors and the fact that their cities are "right down the road" from one another.

Allot of these guys where connected from back when the unions were still under control . Allot of Buffalo / cleveland connections over the years
I know loose has been to Buffalo for some meetings I even have a photo of loose in La nova pizzeria hat .

As I said. I know him and Sidari know each other. I'm sure he knows Papalardo. Great authentic as it gets Little Italy. 3 hours from Buffalo. Borgata is a great spot. Guy named Tommy owns it.

Can you share pic of Loose??

Borgata no interest is going there , maybe the food is good? , never heard anyone really talk about it ,
everyone is pretty much dead now anyways ,

No don’t want it spread all over the internet family members is in the photo who are still alive , if they died before me then I will post it

Newyorkempire wrote: ↑Thu Jun 27, 2024 11:53 am

Stroccos wrote: ↑Thu Jun 27, 2024 11:49 am

Ivan wrote: ↑Wed Jun 26, 2024 11:30 am

Angelo Santino wrote: ↑Wed Jun 26, 2024 4:01 am

Ivan wrote: ↑Wed Jun 26, 2024 3:11 am

Angelo Santino wrote: ↑Wed Jun 26, 2024 2:49 am If these two groups have any connections whatsoever (even down to a Colombo using a laundrymat that Buffalo owns), there would be formal introductions made, that's the mafia at play as a network. It's not exciting or sexy. It's as simple and easy as a Buffalo member attending a Gambino party and encountering one of the few remaining New Orleans' members (or a Chicago member or a Philly member, take your pick). They'll be formally introduced as brothers and what, if anything, they decide to do is their own business.

A very knowledgeable and reliable source has told me that Russell Papalardo in Cleveland still enjoys this sort of treatment as a "brother" in this way by other mafia figures and Cleveland is still regarded as "represented" amid mafia matters by him even though the family is defunct and he's the only made guy still living.

It's truly the essence of what makes the mafia the mafia. If criminality were the sole factor "the Italians" would have died out long ago.

One of the more mind-blowing epiphanies I've had about the mafia is that the reflexive and cynical they're-just-after-money take on the mafia, while having a grain of truth to it, is for the most part pseudo-sophisticated bullshit, while the corny Joe Bonanno thing about it being an old tradition of brotherhood/honor/respect is more or less true.

But when you think of it as a network, what incentive is there to let it die? That could equate to keeping communication with Chicago, Detroit, Buffalo, Pittsburgh (if there is anything left) and New York. It doesn't have to be Papalardo plotting to "rebuild" (ie a Family structure complete with captains with Moltistanti-style grunt 'made men') which is what most outsiders would expect and in fact, would argue he's nonviable if he doesn't.

Cleveland is a really fascinating example of the network that encompasses associates, legit businessmen, labor, unmade criminals etc. surviving the family's "death." What was once a "structured crime family" has evolved into a network of shady but mostly legit guys centered on a certain staffing agency, with a lot of familiar surnames popping up if you examine who's a part of that network.

Anyway, I would be shocked if Papalardo and Todaro were not personally acquainted, given the above factors and the fact that their cities are "right down the road" from one another.

Allot of these guys where connected from back when the unions were still under control . Allot of Buffalo / cleveland connections over the years
I know loose has been to Buffalo for some meetings I even have a photo of loose in La nova pizzeria hat .

As I said. I know him and Sidari know each other. I'm sure he knows Papalardo. Great authentic as it gets Little Italy. 3 hours from Buffalo. Borgata is a great spot. Guy named Tommy owns it.

Can you share pic of Loose??

Newyorkempire wrote: ↑Thu Jun 27, 2024 11:49 am

Stroccos wrote: ↑Thu Jun 27, 2024 11:41 am

Newyorkempire wrote: ↑Wed Jun 26, 2024 6:53 pm

johnny_scootch wrote: ↑Wed Jun 26, 2024 6:35 pm Connections are sources of pride for mafiosi they’re badges of honor, cultivated and even passed down through generations in some cases. In modern times now that these guys are far removed from the Sicilian towns their fathers and grandfathers came from many of these cross family relationships are formed in prison. It’s not a stretch at all to think a member or a trusted associate of the Colombo family has a connection/the ability to reach out to a member or associate of the Todaro family to pass messages or set up meetings.

Pretty sure Bifulco was locked up with Anthony Donato

Did they segregate aids inmates back then ? I was nervous to even shake Bifulco hand

Ouch. He couldn't resist the prostitutes that's for sure. He had a disease cocktail I heard.

Angelo Santino wrote: ↑Thu Jun 27, 2024 8:53 am Prison is a very interesting topic. The next article I have to write will be about the prison system in Italy.

Stroccos wrote: ↑Thu Jun 27, 2024 11:49 am

Ivan wrote: ↑Wed Jun 26, 2024 11:30 am

Angelo Santino wrote: ↑Wed Jun 26, 2024 4:01 am

Ivan wrote: ↑Wed Jun 26, 2024 3:11 am

Angelo Santino wrote: ↑Wed Jun 26, 2024 2:49 am If these two groups have any connections whatsoever (even down to a Colombo using a laundrymat that Buffalo owns), there would be formal introductions made, that's the mafia at play as a network. It's not exciting or sexy. It's as simple and easy as a Buffalo member attending a Gambino party and encountering one of the few remaining New Orleans' members (or a Chicago member or a Philly member, take your pick). They'll be formally introduced as brothers and what, if anything, they decide to do is their own business.

A very knowledgeable and reliable source has told me that Russell Papalardo in Cleveland still enjoys this sort of treatment as a "brother" in this way by other mafia figures and Cleveland is still regarded as "represented" amid mafia matters by him even though the family is defunct and he's the only made guy still living.

It's truly the essence of what makes the mafia the mafia. If criminality were the sole factor "the Italians" would have died out long ago.

One of the more mind-blowing epiphanies I've had about the mafia is that the reflexive and cynical they're-just-after-money take on the mafia, while having a grain of truth to it, is for the most part pseudo-sophisticated bullshit, while the corny Joe Bonanno thing about it being an old tradition of brotherhood/honor/respect is more or less true.

But when you think of it as a network, what incentive is there to let it die? That could equate to keeping communication with Chicago, Detroit, Buffalo, Pittsburgh (if there is anything left) and New York. It doesn't have to be Papalardo plotting to "rebuild" (ie a Family structure complete with captains with Moltistanti-style grunt 'made men') which is what most outsiders would expect and in fact, would argue he's nonviable if he doesn't.

Cleveland is a really fascinating example of the network that encompasses associates, legit businessmen, labor, unmade criminals etc. surviving the family's "death." What was once a "structured crime family" has evolved into a network of shady but mostly legit guys centered on a certain staffing agency, with a lot of familiar surnames popping up if you examine who's a part of that network.

Anyway, I would be shocked if Papalardo and Todaro were not personally acquainted, given the above factors and the fact that their cities are "right down the road" from one another.

Allot of these guys where connected from back when the unions were still under control . Allot of Buffalo / cleveland connections over the years
I know loose has been to Buffalo for some meetings I even have a photo of loose in La nova pizzeria hat .

Stroccos wrote: ↑Thu Jun 27, 2024 11:41 am

Newyorkempire wrote: ↑Wed Jun 26, 2024 6:53 pm

johnny_scootch wrote: ↑Wed Jun 26, 2024 6:35 pm Connections are sources of pride for mafiosi they’re badges of honor, cultivated and even passed down through generations in some cases. In modern times now that these guys are far removed from the Sicilian towns their fathers and grandfathers came from many of these cross family relationships are formed in prison. It’s not a stretch at all to think a member or a trusted associate of the Colombo family has a connection/the ability to reach out to a member or associate of the Todaro family to pass messages or set up meetings.

Pretty sure Bifulco was locked up with Anthony Donato

Did they segregate aids inmates back then ? I was nervous to even shake Bifulco hand

Ivan wrote: ↑Wed Jun 26, 2024 11:30 am

Angelo Santino wrote: ↑Wed Jun 26, 2024 4:01 am

Ivan wrote: ↑Wed Jun 26, 2024 3:11 am

Angelo Santino wrote: ↑Wed Jun 26, 2024 2:49 am If these two groups have any connections whatsoever (even down to a Colombo using a laundrymat that Buffalo owns), there would be formal introductions made, that's the mafia at play as a network. It's not exciting or sexy. It's as simple and easy as a Buffalo member attending a Gambino party and encountering one of the few remaining New Orleans' members (or a Chicago member or a Philly member, take your pick). They'll be formally introduced as brothers and what, if anything, they decide to do is their own business.

A very knowledgeable and reliable source has told me that Russell Papalardo in Cleveland still enjoys this sort of treatment as a "brother" in this way by other mafia figures and Cleveland is still regarded as "represented" amid mafia matters by him even though the family is defunct and he's the only made guy still living.

It's truly the essence of what makes the mafia the mafia. If criminality were the sole factor "the Italians" would have died out long ago.

One of the more mind-blowing epiphanies I've had about the mafia is that the reflexive and cynical they're-just-after-money take on the mafia, while having a grain of truth to it, is for the most part pseudo-sophisticated bullshit, while the corny Joe Bonanno thing about it being an old tradition of brotherhood/honor/respect is more or less true.

But when you think of it as a network, what incentive is there to let it die? That could equate to keeping communication with Chicago, Detroit, Buffalo, Pittsburgh (if there is anything left) and New York. It doesn't have to be Papalardo plotting to "rebuild" (ie a Family structure complete with captains with Moltistanti-style grunt 'made men') which is what most outsiders would expect and in fact, would argue he's nonviable if he doesn't.

Cleveland is a really fascinating example of the network that encompasses associates, legit businessmen, labor, unmade criminals etc. surviving the family's "death." What was once a "structured crime family" has evolved into a network of shady but mostly legit guys centered on a certain staffing agency, with a lot of familiar surnames popping up if you examine who's a part of that network.

Anyway, I would be shocked if Papalardo and Todaro were not personally acquainted, given the above factors and the fact that their cities are "right down the road" from one another.

Newyorkempire wrote: ↑Wed Jun 26, 2024 6:53 pm

johnny_scootch wrote: ↑Wed Jun 26, 2024 6:35 pm Connections are sources of pride for mafiosi they’re badges of honor, cultivated and even passed down through generations in some cases. In modern times now that these guys are far removed from the Sicilian towns their fathers and grandfathers came from many of these cross family relationships are formed in prison. It’s not a stretch at all to think a member or a trusted associate of the Colombo family has a connection/the ability to reach out to a member or associate of the Todaro family to pass messages or set up meetings.

Pretty sure Bifulco was locked up with Anthony Donato

johnny_scootch wrote: ↑Thu Jun 27, 2024 8:46 am

B. wrote: ↑Wed Jun 26, 2024 7:15 pm If true, that is a very good detail to know. Johnny makes a great point that prison relationships are a huge factor in these connections, especially today. You see these group photos of guys from different Families and that is just scratching the surface. Guys who do good time together end up like brothers.

Just to add a bit to the whole prison thing that I don't think people realize happens is that guys families will even get close during a bid and I mean personal families. You can have a guy from the Bronx and a guy from Brooklyn who normally wouldn't be friends but they get close in jail and at the same time their families become close from spending all that time together in the visiting room. They'll end up traveling to the prisons together even spending holidays together, I've seen it happen. I had a close relative doing time who became friends with another guy who didn't have much of a family besides a sister and mother. I can't tell you how many times we drove his mother up for visits and she became very close with my mother and spent a few holidays with us. Those kind of auxiliary connections form all the time.

B. wrote: ↑Wed Jun 26, 2024 7:15 pm If true, that is a very good detail to know. Johnny makes a great point that prison relationships are a huge factor in these connections, especially today. You see these group photos of guys from different Families and that is just scratching the surface. Guys who do good time together end up like brothers.

PolackTony wrote: ↑Wed Jun 26, 2024 9:14 pm

Ivan wrote: ↑Wed Jun 26, 2024 3:11 am

Angelo Santino wrote: ↑Wed Jun 26, 2024 2:49 am If these two groups have any connections whatsoever (even down to a Colombo using a laundrymat that Buffalo owns), there would be formal introductions made, that's the mafia at play as a network. It's not exciting or sexy. It's as simple and easy as a Buffalo member attending a Gambino party and encountering one of the few remaining New Orleans' members (or a Chicago member or a Philly member, take your pick). They'll be formally introduced as brothers and what, if anything, they decide to do is their own business.

A very knowledgeable and reliable source has told me that Russell Papalardo in Cleveland still enjoys this sort of treatment as a "brother" in this way by other mafia figures and Cleveland is still regarded as "represented" amid mafia matters by him even though the family is defunct and he's the only made guy still living.

Since you brought up Papalardo, you might recall the case against Rudy Fratto in Chicago several years back, where he was recorded talking to a forklift company guy from Vegas who was getting squeezed by some Cleveland guys over a debt and ran to Fratto for help. In the transcript, Fratto told the guy to go back to the Cleveland guys and tell them that he was under the protection of a guy who was “the same as [REDACTED NAME]”, presumably referring to Papalardo. Showing that, of course, guys in Chicago knew who Papalardo was and recognized him as the same thing as them (which is not revelatory) and also suggesting that LCN membership was something that still carried significant weight even for guys in a city like Cleveland where the outfit is on the cusp of being extinct.

B. wrote: ↑Wed Jun 26, 2024 4:20 pm

antimafia wrote: ↑Wed Jun 26, 2024 4:12 pm Peter Edwards and Antonio Nicaso indicated in their 2015 book, Business or Blood, that two years earlier (i.e., 2013), the NYC Families with the most influence in Ontario "were the Luccheses and Gambinos, and to a lesser extent the Genoveses." (p. 223)

I haven't asked the authors for the source, but we can easily guess it: law enforcement.

I personally don't have any doubt that all the five NYC Families are involved in illicit activity in Ontario. YMMV.

Very interesting.

I wonder what the basis is for specifying the Luccheses. We already have reason to suspect the Gambinos and the Genovese of course are capable of anything. I'd be surprised if the Colombos had much actual involvement in Ontario but they are all part of the same network and their ties to the Buffalo-Ontario Family make it possible they also have contacts in Canada though I'm reluctant to assume much. [snip]

Ivan wrote: ↑Wed Jun 26, 2024 3:11 am

Angelo Santino wrote: ↑Wed Jun 26, 2024 2:49 am If these two groups have any connections whatsoever (even down to a Colombo using a laundrymat that Buffalo owns), there would be formal introductions made, that's the mafia at play as a network. It's not exciting or sexy. It's as simple and easy as a Buffalo member attending a Gambino party and encountering one of the few remaining New Orleans' members (or a Chicago member or a Philly member, take your pick). They'll be formally introduced as brothers and what, if anything, they decide to do is their own business.

A very knowledgeable and reliable source has told me that Russell Papalardo in Cleveland still enjoys this sort of treatment as a "brother" in this way by other mafia figures and Cleveland is still regarded as "represented" amid mafia matters by him even though the family is defunct and he's the only made guy still living.