Made without Ceremony

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Re: Made without Ceremony

by BeatiPaoli » Thu Aug 03, 2023 5:59 am

To Everyone: First and only bump. Would love to hear from some more of the researchers on this Forum.

Regards,
BeatiPaoli

Re: Made without Ceremony

by BeatiPaoli » Thu Aug 03, 2023 5:57 am

To Everyone: First and only bump. Would love to hear from some more of the researchers on this Forum

Regards,
BeatiPaoli

Re: Made without Ceremony

by PolackTony » Mon Jul 24, 2023 10:14 pm

Snakes wrote: Sun Jul 23, 2023 4:50 pm Chicago not doing the formal ceremony has somehow turned from conjecture into a fact. The truth is, we don't know the exact details of any ceremony aside from the 1983 ceremony with Calabrese. We don't know what exactly happened in the 1956 ceremony, except that a banquet was held and the prospective members had to "swear an oath." Other than that, we really don't know what else they did.
To underscore the ways that conjecture and fraught evidence have been turned into "fact", the below excerpt from 1963 was posted a while back on this forum and trumpeted as the gospel truth regarding Chicago's induction practices (it can be easily found by searching on Mary Ferrell, and was thus low hanging fruit). The FBI had very poor sources in Chicago at this point, and following Valachi's revelations were seeking to confirm his account of "La Cosa Nostra" in other cities. So, they asked some guy who was informing in Chicago about it, and he said that he was totally unaware of any ceremony or oath, or even that new members were sponsored by someone. In fact, the CI in question here (CG 6512) was not only apparently not a Chicago member, it's not even clear that he was an associate or had any formal affiliation with the mafia at all (in this period in Chicago, without strong member or even associate sources, the FBI leaned heavily on all sorts of randos who claimed to be in the know, from gamblers and restaurant owners to local cops and reporters, as confidential informants -- just because they assigned someone a CI code and referenced them in a report, doesn't mean that this person had any idea of what was actually going on). CG 6512 talked to the FBI for several years, giving sparse intel of a mainly anecdotal nature and nothing at all concerning the actual organization, and was never identified as a Chicago LCN member or associate in any report that I have read.

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In 1964, after he was pinched on heroin trafficking charges, Teddy DeRose began talking to the FBI (thanks to Ed Valin for uncovering that CG 6690 was Teddy DeRose). DeRose was a longtime associate of the mafia in Chicago and gave a detailed account of the organization and its history (going back to Mike Merlo and Tony Lombardo in the 1920s) from his perspective as an associate (excerpt below from Sam Battaglia's file). Unfortunately, we don't have an equally detailed account from a made member in Chicago during this period, as the member CIs that the FBI developed in Chicago typically gave much less intel. While not having gone through the ceremony himself (and DeRose was in fact of French Jewish ancestry but had successfully passed himself off as Italian in Chicago in order to advance his "career"), DeRose was aware that it at least entailed a formal ceremony where initiates had to swear an oath, and used the term "made" to denote membership status in "The Family" (unlike some other Chicago CIs, it is very clear that DeRose knew the difference between an associate and a made member). Unlike the guy who the FBI asked in 1963, DeRose was also aware that new members were proposed by a sponsor.

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If anyone is unfamiliar with this history, it should be stressed that a made member of the Chicago Family did not testify about the organization until 2007, when Nick Calabrese gave a detailed recounting of his traditional punciuta ceremony conducted in October of 1983. Other accounts on this matter for Chicago are vague and sparse. For example, in 1976, Chicago/Tampa informant Vic "Popeye" Arrigo told the FBI that he had been proposed for membership by Chicago member Joey DiVarco and was to be inducted at an upcoming ceremony officiated by Accardo (Arrigo testified in a case in Tampa and thus may not have wound up getting made).

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Re: Made without Ceremony

by PolackTony » Mon Jul 24, 2023 8:59 pm

In 1963, a Milwaukee member informant told the FBI that induction in the Milwaukee Family did not involve any formal procedures, not even an oath, but was conducted at an informal house party with the boss and other leading members. The same CI in 1963 also reported a Family meeting to the FBI, where members (including Frank Balistreiri, Vito Aiello, and Augie Maniaci, among others) discussed Valachi's recent testimony and commented that they had never heard "cosa nostra" used as a synonym for the organization that they referred to as "outfit" or "mafia" (it was opined that "casa nostra", or "our house", would make more sense). The CI here was not Augie Maniaci, who himself was also an FBI informant. For those unfamiliar with Milwaukee, the leadership of the Family was entirely Sicilian and so far as is known, they only inducted their first handful of Mainland Italians in the early 1960s, again supporting that attitudes to the formality of initiation could be relaxed even in Families that were very strongly Sicilian in membership.

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To underscore that practices could be variable even within the same Family, in 1964, Augie Maniaci told the FBI that members were inducted using the traditional punciuta ceremony; Maniaci was apparently made sometime in the 1930s or 40s, so it is unclear if this practice was current at the time that he spoke to the FBI. Note also that Maniaci claimed that the sponsor and initiate mixed their blood together. The same was claimed by an unknown Detroit CI about initiation into the Detroit "outfit", and was claimed to have been done in the NE Family as well (with the sponsor and initiate both having their fingers pricked and then pressing their fingers together):

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Re: Made without Ceremony

by PolackTony » Mon Jul 24, 2023 8:39 pm

Ed Valin identified CI NY 1839-CTE as Florio Isabella, who told the Feds that he was made in the 1950s in a verbal-only ceremony, apparently without even taking a formal oath of umirtà:

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Re: Made without Ceremony

by Wiseguy » Mon Jul 24, 2023 4:56 pm

Either it has meaning or no meaning.

Re: Made without Ceremony

by JoePuzzles234 » Mon Jul 24, 2023 1:55 am

Teddy Persico wrote: Mon Jul 24, 2023 12:00 am Anthony Fiato was told all the rules by Pete Milano but had no ceremony.
Fiato was never made, despite his own claims. It can be pieced together from his book and from what Kenji says in Breakshot.
In his book he notes that he was proposed by Jack Lo Cicero and Luigi Gelfuso and that an induction ceremony was just “a mere formality.” But what he never mentions in The Animal in Hollywood are Bobby Paduano and then the 1985 Westlake Village ceremony that Kenji talks about in both his book and his blog.

Paduano, Fiato and some other proposed associates are going to be inducted at this ceremony but it gets cancelled by the Caci brothers, who don’t want Paduano made because he is a drug dealer. Gallo says that Fiato receives membership status regardless, through Gelfuso, who tells him that he is a member – also never referenced in Fiato’s book or any of his blogs.

I think it is pretty clear that Fiato doesn’t talk about the cancelled ceremony in his book because of the Caci interference, since he clearly doesn’t like any of the Buffalo faction members.

We also know that despite the decline of the family, ceremonies are still being conducted outside of the Fiato situation, since Jimmy Caci tells Kenji about his own in Palm Springs, where Peter and Carmen Milano were present. Fiato also doesn’t appear on any subsequent membership lists from the FBI, despite Fratianno making an appearance in 1993.
Adam wrote: Sun Jul 23, 2023 1:22 pm
JoePuzzles234 wrote: Sun Jul 23, 2023 12:21 pm Michael Rizzitello's induction with Fratianno, Louis Dragna and Bompensiero comes to mind. It was entirely verbal, conducted in a car.
Well, they did the ceremony, just not as formal. In a car yes, but the acting bosses(and I don't really want to get into Fratianno's status, but Dragna is clear and another made member was there) were there. Informal but they did it. It looks trashy but pretty sure that counts as an official ceremony.
I don't think Fratianno's situation is that complex, he made an unofficial arrangement with Dragna, the acting boss and performed pretty much all his duties while only officially being the acting underboss and then gets in trouble with Brooklier because he went around introducing himself as LA's acting boss.

As for the ceremony, I agree that is was official since Rizzitello is recognised as a member by everyone but the informal nature does fit what was asked in the original post - it is certainly a stark contrast to the entire family gathering together for the 1947 and 1952 ceremonies.

Re: Made without Ceremony

by Teddy Persico » Mon Jul 24, 2023 12:00 am

Anthony Fiato was told all the rules by Pete Milano but had no ceremony.

Re: Made without Ceremony

by Stroccos » Sun Jul 23, 2023 10:41 pm

Tony delmonti was made On a wire by Tommy marrota of Rochester he just said basically you want to be made your made .
Obv a total joke of a initiation

Re: Made without Ceremony

by PolackTony » Sun Jul 23, 2023 5:14 pm

Snakes wrote: Sun Jul 23, 2023 4:50 pm Chicago not doing the formal ceremony has somehow turned from conjecture into a fact. The truth is, we don't know the exact details of any ceremony aside from the 1983 ceremony with Calabrese. We don't know what exactly happened in the 1956 ceremony, except that a banquet was held and the prospective members had to "swear an oath." Other than that, we really don't know what else they did.

Even if they didn't do it the "traditional" way, they'd hardly be the first. Even a family like the Bonannos, who we think of as being more closely tied to Italy and having a "traditional" mindset, had ceremonies with very little formality.

The simple fact is that we don't know as much about their ceremonies as other families as we have only had one member testify and describe the details of his making.
Before Nicky Calabrese testified in 2007 about his 1983 induction ceremony, the best source that we have on this question was Chicago associate Teddy DeRose in 1964, who told the FBI that initiation into what he called “The Family” or “The Life” was “always accompanied by a ceremony”. He specifically said that this was performed at a “banquet” behind closed doors, and included the inductees swearing an oath. As he wasn’t a member, he would likely not have been privy to further details about what went on during the ceremonies, but we can conclude that it was, at the least, a formal affair that involved taking the oath. Chicago member sources in the 60s/70s, by and large, were cagey and did mot reveal much substantive organizational information to the Feds. While some sources denied being aware that Chicago had a ceremony accompanying “membership”, it is unclear in some cases if these sources were actually made themselves and whether they were referring to being made or simply being put on record as a formal associate under a captain. Calabrese testified that he was totally unaware of what his induction entailed before he went through the ceremony, and by that time he had been a formally-affiliated associate of the mafia for ~13 years, which goes to underscore that these things were not only not public knowledge, but weren’t even common knowledge among associates who belonged to and killed for the Chicago Family.

So, what we can say is that Chicago was at least as formal about making guys as other Families, given that member sources from Families including the Bonanno, Colombo, Genovese, Lucchese, DeCavalcante, Buffalo, and Milwaukee Families, just from the evidence that I’ve seen, claimed the use at one time or another of a verbal-only ceremony. Bonanno member CI Willie Dara told the FBI that he was inducted in a verbal-only ceremony around 1949-50 and that by this time he understood the full traditional punciuta ceremony to have been considered old fashioned for at least a dozen years. In the 70s, guys like Joe Massino and Anthony Spero were inducted in verbal-only ceremonies, and obviously it didn’t do anything to make them second-class members. Baldo Amato and Cesare Bonventre were inducted in a verbal-only ceremony in ‘77 officiated by Galante and Steve Cannone. As with the DeCavs largely seeming to have used verbal-only ceremonies and claims by the Milwaukee outfit that they had done away with the full ceremony well before the 1960s, it’s funny that we have examples of some of the more Sicilian Families evidently feeling that the details of the ceremony were less important, while the Napolitan-American Gotti was a stickler, and the Genovese seem to have been far more consistent about using the full ceremony than the Bonnanos (though George Barone was inducted in a Genovese verbal-only ceremony in the ‘70s). By the 1970s/80s, at least, Chicago was apparently more formal about this than the DeCavs or Bonannos.

There should be a disclaimer attached to Chicago posts, reminding everyone that what they think they know about Chicago is often either distorted or outright BS, derived from claims made about the organization that were not based on actual member sources, of which not a single one existed who gave an explicit public account until Family Secrets. While many gaps remain in our knowledge due to the limited nature of the few member sources available, our understanding of Chicago has grown tremendously in just a couple of years as we’ve accessed inside sources not available publicly in the past, and a greater breadth and depth of comparative analysis with other Families provides a more sophisticated context to interpret this new info.

Re: Made without Ceremony

by Snakes » Sun Jul 23, 2023 4:50 pm

Chicago not doing the formal ceremony has somehow turned from conjecture into a fact. The truth is, we don't know the exact details of any ceremony aside from the 1983 ceremony with Calabrese. We don't know what exactly happened in the 1956 ceremony, except that a banquet was held and the prospective members had to "swear an oath." Other than that, we really don't know what else they did.

Even if they didn't do it the "traditional" way, they'd hardly be the first. Even a family like the Bonannos, who we think of as being more closely tied to Italy and having a "traditional" mindset, had ceremonies with very little formality.

The simple fact is that we don't know as much about their ceremonies as other families as we have only had one member testify and describe the details of his making.

Re: Made without Ceremony

by johnny_scootch » Sun Jul 23, 2023 4:13 pm

Verbal ceremony has exactly the same weight as the traditional ceremony and there is no ‘entry level membership’ once your made you’re made and can hold any position within the organization without having to go through further ceremonies or initiations. I think the verbal only ceremonies go back quite a way to at least the 70’s and probably much further, I just can’t recall anything before Galante making Joe Massino and a few other guys in that bar (I’m sure some other guys can). If we take Joe Bonanno’s account of his making ceremony in A Man of Honor as truthful it goes back to the 1920’s.

Re: Made without Ceremony

by BeatiPaoli » Sun Jul 23, 2023 3:47 pm

To Everyone: Thank you all for the replies and info so far! I am hoping some of the mob historians on this Forum will weigh in as well!!!

Regarding Chicago, before they instituted the traditional making ceremony (in later decades), can anyone on this Forum confirm the new Chicago "initiate" , in the 30's and 40's, had to swear on some (??? non-Catholic) Bible? I thought the bible in question had a funny, particular name ..................????

Regards,

BeatiPaoli

Re: Made without Ceremony

by Adam » Sun Jul 23, 2023 1:22 pm

JoePuzzles234 wrote: Sun Jul 23, 2023 12:21 pm Michael Rizzitello's induction with Fratianno, Louis Dragna and Bompensiero comes to mind. It was entirely verbal, conducted in a car.
Well, they did the ceremony, just not as formal. In a car yes, but the acting bosses(and I don't really want to get into Fratianno's status, but Dragna is clear and another made member was there) were there. Informal but they did it. It looks trashy but pretty sure that counts as an official ceremony.

Re: Made without Ceremony

by furiofromnaples » Sun Jul 23, 2023 1:21 pm

Chicago never used the formal induction ceremony for years.

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