Project Otremens Recordings

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Re: Project Otremens Recordings

by antimafia » Thu Feb 13, 2025 2:11 pm

Inside the takedowns sparked by Mob sting: Part 5 of 5

https://pressreader.com/article/281496461999433

Re: Project Otremens Recordings

by NickleCity » Wed Feb 12, 2025 8:58 am

Tonyd621 wrote: Wed Feb 12, 2025 5:51 am
antimafia wrote: Wed Feb 12, 2025 4:50 am A Mob underboss confides in the wrong friend: Part 4 of 5.

https://pressreader.com/article/281496461997095
Do we know for sure if Violi is telling the truth regarding Todaro Jr or not? Was that ever able to be vetted?
I'm would assume this information was vetted by the LE involved in this operation. However, I do not believe it was tested in court because Violi pleaded guilty to lesser charges that did not include gansterism-if I remember correctly. Maybe someone with more experience with the Canadian courts could let me know if I am correct and perhaps elaborate on exactly information was allowed in court.

Re: Project Otremens Recordings

by Tonyd621 » Wed Feb 12, 2025 5:51 am

antimafia wrote: Wed Feb 12, 2025 4:50 am A Mob underboss confides in the wrong friend: Part 4 of 5.

https://pressreader.com/article/281496461997095
Do we know for sure if Violi is telling the truth regarding Todaro Jr or not? Was that ever able to be vetted?

Re: Project Otremens Recordings

by antimafia » Wed Feb 12, 2025 4:50 am

A Mob underboss confides in the wrong friend: Part 4 of 5.

https://pressreader.com/article/281496461997095

Re: Project Otremens Recordings

by pat_marcy » Wed Feb 12, 2025 4:15 am

I forgive you Pogo. You can’t win them all eh. Haha.

That aside superb thread. So much better to read when everyone’s on the same page the majority of the time and not being derailed by others. Good work gentleman

Re: Project Otremens Recordings

by Pogo The Clown » Tue Feb 11, 2025 10:17 pm

johnny_scootch wrote: Tue Feb 11, 2025 8:00 pm Rehashing the Luppino’s membership huh!?! Wow

Pogo’s not sold…..hahaha classic.

Well considering how the forums have a near 100% failure rate in calling such matters, forgive me if I don’t blindly follow the herd.


Pogo

Re: Project Otremens Recordings

by Newyorkempire » Tue Feb 11, 2025 9:04 pm

WAIT. So you're saying there's a chance???

Re: Project Otremens Recordings

by johnny_scootch » Tue Feb 11, 2025 8:00 pm

Rehashing the Luppino’s membership huh!?! Wow

Pogo’s not sold…..hahaha classic.

Nice to have B back

11 February 2015:
J Violi stated that Cece Luppino was asked if he wanted to be involved (be made), Cece told his dad [Rocco Luppino] if he could make money then he would be involved, if no money than he doesn’t want to be involved; that there are too many headaches. J Violi stated that Cece told his father he watched his father struggle for 30 years, and that Cece does not want to struggle for 30 years; and if he does have to then he doesn’t want it.
To me this implies Rocco had been made for 30 years at that point.

Re: Project Otremens Recordings

by B. » Tue Feb 11, 2025 6:21 pm

Great post, Antimafia. I definitely understand you this time around.

There isn't any intel to suggest Panepinto was a made member but if he was, I agree Bonanno would be more likely. As we've discussed before, there are longstanding reports of Bonanno members in Ontario -- Magaddino's 1965 complaint that Bonanno had inducted members there without Magaddino's permission as well as the 1970s report I've posted where an Ontario faction of the Bonanno Family is identified alongside a Montreal faction. What we lack is confirmation of exactly who these Ontario-based Bonanno members were though it shows there was precedent for inducting members there.

The Musitanos are sometimes framed as affiliates of Rizzuto because of their business partnership and alliance, but this is of course evidence of association and not formal affiliation. Evidence is stronger that they were/are Buffalo affiliates, but they do bring to mind Panepinto's relationship to Rizzuto as well. Panepinto was closer to Rizzuto than the Musitanos but I'm open to the possibility that he was affiliated with Buffalo even if it is less likely. Scarcella is an intriguing guy when we've tried to dig into him. We know he had a longstanding history in Buffalo-affiliated circles including his early association with Paul Volpe, whose Buffalo membership I was able to confirm (though he too had close Bonanno links). While like you I doubt Scarcella was a capodecina, Canadian LE listing Panepinto as a subordinate of Scarcella lends itself to the possibility that Panepinto was a Buffalo affiliate (whether member or associate).

--

Thanks for breaking down the Luppino info in even more detail, Chin. It's uncontroversial to me that they are Buffalo members.

Since Pogo is using those highly questionable charts as his basis for questioning this, keep in mind those charts list not only the Luppinos as a separate group but the Luppino-Violis together as a "Family". While there is less info on the Luppinos, Otremens showed beyond a shadow of a doubt that Violi is or was the underboss of the Buffalo Family so that should further shatter the idea that the Luppino-Violi group is a formal "Family" separate from Buffalo.

Canadian LE has a longstanding history of labeling factions as "Families" without concrete basis. This has been popularized with the Rizzutos, Luppino-Violis, and Musitanos, as well as the Papalias apparently, but it goes back much further when they regularly referred to the "Cotroni Family" which we know was a Bonanno decina.

Re: Project Otremens Recordings

by antimafia » Tue Feb 11, 2025 4:54 pm

B. wrote: Tue Feb 11, 2025 12:19 pm
antimafia wrote: Tue Feb 11, 2025 6:09 am I just don’t see how Panepinto was a made Bonanno Family member or a made member of another American LCN Family, given all his ties to Rizzuto in Montreal and the Caruana-Cuntrera group in the GTA; Panepinto’s hanging out with bikers a lot more than with mobsters; and of course by his being succeeded as a GTA-based Rizzuto “crew” leader by Juan Ramon Fernandez (“Joe Bravo”), who in turn was succeeded by aspirant mafioso Danny Ranieri. Panepinto, Bravo, and Ranieri all met the same fate.
Not understanding you here. You don't see how Panepinto could have been a Bonanno member when he was tied to confirmed Bonanno members like Rizzuto and some of the Caruana-Cuntreras? If Panepinto was a made member, it is likely he was with the Bonanno Family or perhaps a Rizzuto-allied Buffalo member. Also the idea of "succession" here appears to be purely operational (though of course Fernandez claimed to be made as we know).

The meeting in question is interesting but I'm now more skeptical of Metelsky's interpretation of the "our friends" comment as a formal introduction.
Sgt. Metelsky (Ret.) was previously employed with the Halton Regional Police Service (HRPS) from 1996 to 2017. (I had a typo in my earlier post when I wrote "Halton Region's Police Service.") The "our friends" interpretation appears to be that of this police force, particularly Staff Sgt. Dan Farr (Ret.), but Metelsky himself was not involved in the Project Expiate investigation that commenced after the murder of John Papalia. At the time, Metelsky had a lower police rank.

I should have conveyed in my post that I definitely don't see Panepinto as "made man" material, period; that if he was indeed inducted, it could have been into the Bonanno Family -- which I still don't see happening -- and not into the Buffalo Family or another American LCN Family because of his many ties to Rizzuto, i.e., Rizzuto's right-hand man in Toronto, his Ontario representative, his muscle in Toronto, hiding out in Montreal after the murders of the two 'ndranghetisti, the guys from Calabria seeking out Rizzuto for answers about the murders, and so on. (There has been speculation on here that Panepinto was a Buffalo Family member, but I think the conjecture was based on his surname and his presence at the Oct. 22-23, 1997 meeting north of Toronto, during which on the second day he was observed and heard making the "our friends" comment.) As for the possibility that he was with a Rizzuto-allied Buffalo Family member, then one wonders whether Panepinto's business dealings with the Caruana-Cuntrera group was also frowned upon by the Buffalo Family leadership at this time in the same way that boss Joe Todaro Jr. and underboss Domenico Violi frowned upon Pat Musitano's closeness to the "coffee guys," i.e., the Caruana-Cuntrera group. One also wonders whether the Buffalo Family was aware of Panepinto being a person of interest in the murder of Buffalo Family member Enio Mora, as Panepinto was suspected of having been enlisted by Giacinto Arcuri (later acquitted of the murder charge).

If anyone entertains the possibility that Panepinto was a Toronto-based Bonanno Family soldier, then one also entertains that Peter Scarcella was at the time -- or still -- is a Bonanno Family captain, as law enforcement considered Panepinto part of Scarcella's group per the HRPS diagram, notwithstanding the mysterious classifications of some of the attendees and of the crime groups with which they're affiliated. Canadian mobsters have historically been unable to break through the glass ceiling, which is why a number of organized-crime writers, for example, don't believe that John Papalia himself ever rose above the rank of Buffalo Family soldier. We haven't seen any evidence that Scarcella was ever made into an American LCN Family, let alone promoted to captain in one.

Re: Project Otremens Recordings

by Pogo The Clown » Tue Feb 11, 2025 4:29 pm

For me it is unclear if they are Buffalo members.


We do know that the Papalia’s were confirmed Buffalo members. Yet the chart that was released from this very investigation shows that LE classified them as separate from Rocco and Natale Luppino (same with Musitano). It would be very strange indeed to do so if they were all clear cut made members of the same family in the same crew.


Pogo

Re: Project Otremens Recordings

by chin_gigante » Tue Feb 11, 2025 4:12 pm

Pogo The Clown wrote: Tue Feb 11, 2025 4:07 pm Could very well be but I’m still not sold on it. Again it looks like it is based on someone’s interpretation on what is meant based on little snippets. And those interpretations are based on the supposition that they are Buffalo members to begin with so one just reinforces the other


If LE specifically cites them as made Buffalo members in said documents then that settles it but as far as I know we haven’t seen any direct LE quotes from those documents.
Is your argument that it's unclear whether they were members of the Buffalo family or a different cosa nostra family, or that it's unclear whether they were cosa nostra members at all?

Re: Project Otremens Recordings

by Pogo The Clown » Tue Feb 11, 2025 4:07 pm

Could very well be but I’m still not sold on it. Again it looks like it is based on someone’s interpretation on what is meant based on little snippets. And those interpretations are based on the supposition that they are Buffalo members to begin with so one just reinforces the other


If LE specifically cites them as made Buffalo members in said documents then that settles it but as far as I know we haven’t seen any direct LE quotes from those documents.


Pogo

Re: Project Otremens Recordings

by chin_gigante » Tue Feb 11, 2025 3:48 pm

I believe it was Adrian Humphreys who first reported that Rocco Luppino was a member of the Buffalo family, having been made a capo around early 2015. In conveying this information, Humphreys specifically cited as sources ‘transcripts and summaries entered as exhibits’ in criminal proceedings against Domenico Violi.
The police evidence gathered during the three-year probe claim the organisation was being resuscitated as the last reputed boss, Leonard (The Calzone) Falzone, was ailing. He died in 2016.
The reorganisation seemed to begin in 2014.
Violi himself said he was inducted into the Buffalo family as a ‘made’ member in January 2015, according to documents, and around the same time, Rocco Luppino, Giacomo Luppino’s son, was allegedly named ‘captain’ of the group’s outpost in Canada; a younger Luppino relative was asked if he wished to also be ‘made’.

Adrian Humphreys, ‘Shocking mob trial allegation: Hamilton crime figure was Underboss of Buffalo Mafia’, National Post, 3 December 2018, https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/sh ... falo-mafia.
In January 2019, Molly Hays reported for The Globe and Mail that Natale Luppino was also a Buffalo member and that Cece Luppino was the ‘younger relative’ who had been offered membership. Again, ‘court documents’ and ‘wire transcript excerpts’ were cited as the source of this information.
Rocco Luppino and his brother Natale Luppino are both ‘made’ members of Buffalo’s Todaro crime family, with Rocco holding the title of captain, according to court documents filed in a recent cross-border mafia takedown…According to wire transcript excerpts in that case, Giuseppe Violi told an associate – who, unbeknownst to him was a police agent – back in February, 2015, that Cece Luppino had been approached about becoming a ‘made’ member.

Molly Hays, ‘Hamilton police investigate homicide at mobster’s home’, Globe and Mail, 31 January 2019, https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/ ... ters-home/.
Professor Anna Sergi also directly cited debrief reports from Project Otremens in her 2022 article ‘Mafia Borderland’. The information Sergi gathered from these reports corroborated what Humphreys and Hays wrote about Rocco and Natale Luppino being Buffalo members and Cece Luppino being offered membership.

Sergi made specific reference to the fact that (as B pointed out above) protocol required that Joe Todaro be the one to tell both Natale and Rocco Luppino about their nephew’s promotion to underboss, and that both Luppinos had been involved in conversations with Todaro about whether to recognise other cosa nostra members.

The intercepted conversations Sergi cited are laid out below. I have reorganised them in chronological order but the descriptions under the dates are taken verbatim from Sergi’s article (a couple of clarifying additions of mine are in square brackets – those in standard parentheses are from the original article).
11 February 2015:
J Violi stated that Cece Luppino was asked if he wanted to be involved (be made), Cece told his dad [Rocco Luppino] if he could make money then he would be involved, if no money than he doesn’t want to be involved; that there are too many headaches. J Violi stated that Cece told his father he watched his father struggle for 30 years, and that Cece does not want to struggle for 30 years; and if he does have to then he doesn’t want it.

23 November 2016:
The Agent [Morena] stated that Joe Todaro had told Natale Luppino that he did not recognise Joe and Paolo Cuntrera as made members of a crime family.

7 December 2016:
Rocco Luppino agreed that they [Joe and Paolo Cuntrera] should not be recognised, who knew if they were even made in Italy. However, a high-ranking member of the NYC Bonanno family had introduced them as ‘friends of ours’.

1 November 2017:
D Violi repeated that ‘he’ (Joe Todaro) told D Violi to let ‘him’ (Joe Todaro) tell ‘them’ (the Uncles, Rocco and Natale Luppino). The Agent agreed; that if they (Uncles) had heard it from D Violi it would be the wrong way. D Violi stated that he had actually told ‘him’ (Joe Todaro) that D Violi would not tell them; that then ‘he’ (Joe Todaro) said it.

Anna Sergi, ‘Mafia Borderland: Narratives, Traits, and Expectations of Italian-American Mafias in Ontario and the Niagara Region’, Journal of Borderland Studies 39, no 3 (2022): 545-67, https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10 ... 22.2151036.
In the same article, Sergi also referenced pre-trial documents from Operation Canadian Connection in Reggio Calabria. This laid out further corroboration, this time from an ‘ndrangheta source, that the Luppinos were affiliated with the Buffalo family. Sergi cited an intercepted conversation between two ‘ndrangheta affiliates connected to the Commisso clan in Siderno who were discussing the murder of Cece Luppino. One of the affiliates then said of Natale Luppino, ‘He was going with the Sicilians, you know…the way I understand it, they hang around with the Sicilians.’

The US Attorney’s Office press release following the indictments in the Eastern District of New York also acknowledged that ‘members of the Todaro organised crime family’ had been arrested in Project Otremens.
In a coordinated operation, Canadian law enforcement authorities today arrested nine organised crime members and associates in Canada, including members of the Todaro organised crime family, who are charged with, among other crimes, narcotics trafficking.

US Attorney’s Office, Eastern District of New York, ‘Members and Associates of Gambino and Bonanno Organized Crime Families Arrested in Coordinated US-Canadian Takedown’, 9 November 2017, https://www.justice.gov/usao-edny/pr/me ... s-arrested.

Re: Project Otremens Recordings

by B. » Tue Feb 11, 2025 3:21 pm

Pogo The Clown wrote: Tue Feb 11, 2025 1:02 pm Did the tapes/investigation actually reveal that or was that just the interpretation of the writer of that Buffalo “resurgence” article that kicked off this whole debate? We only really have that authors summary of it. The actual information put out by those who conducted said investigation shows they themselves considered them 3 separate groups.


Other than that one resurgence article that everyone ran with is there anything else showing Rocco and Natale Luppino as made Buffalo members? Thinking back neither of them were listed as members in the 1985, 1993, 1997 or 2006 Buffalo lists. They could have been made after 2006 but that seems highly unlikely considering their ages (Rocco would have been pushing 70 by then).

It originally came from a Globe & Mail article (a Canadian newspaper) citing court documents sourced from Morena's cooperation. It stated explicitly that in addition to Domenico Violi being made into Buffalo and later promoted to underboss, his uncles were made members of Buffalo, Rocco Luppino was a capodecina, and Joe Violi was also offered the option of joining the Buffalo Family.

Even in the original post in this thread, information from Morena was shared that shows Natale and Rocco Luppino were told by Joe Todaro that they did not have to recognize two of the Cuntreras as made members because he wasn't sure where they were made. They were told this by Todaro, obviously, because he was their boss.

There were also recordings by Morena about following proper protocol when introducing Domenico Violi to his uncles, the Luppinos, as the new underboss. It was felt that Joe Todaro needed to do it rather than Domenico Violi making the introduction himself. It's a Cosa Nostra rule that when a member is promoted he needs to be introduced with his new title by a third party and I'm sure it was also a matter of respect. Joe Todaro would inform the Luppinos about Violi's promotion because he was their boss.

We know that Cece Luppino was also offered membership.

The Luppinos are made members of the Buffalo Family.

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