Who's taking over

Forum rules

Post a reply

Confirmation code
Enter the code exactly as it appears. All letters are case insensitive.
BBCode is OFF
Smilies are OFF
Topic review
   

Expand view Topic review: Who's taking over

Re: Who's taking over

by CabriniGreen » Thu Jun 22, 2023 11:01 pm

SonnyBlackstein wrote: ↑Mon Jun 19, 2023 11:47 am
OcSleeper wrote: ↑Sun Jun 18, 2023 10:20 pm It's just not happening.
I just don't see where Nose's power base is.
IIRC Cammarano had a vast majority of the Captains. Nose has to have lost respect in and externally. Joe is respected externally. He was quiet. I don't think it's likey but I disagree that Nose has the ability to enforce his decision to shelve. Johnny Joe cant take on the world himself. Whats Aiello going to do? Perhaps I'm wrong and he does. I just don't see this as a definitive, no.
If Nose wasn't a walking news story then this would a dead issue. But with all the heat, meetings, funeral parlor, headlines. I think him going away could get people asking questions.

Just an opinion.


I know it tends to be forgotten, but Mancuso was a member of a legendary NY street crew, the Purple Gang.
He might have a lot more respect in the street than we realize. Heavyhitters came outta that group, and he's one of the last ones left....

That Bronx Crew established themselves as the most reliable, credible " brand" of violence purveyors in probably not just the Bonnano family, but in the NY mob in general. That's why the funeral thing was such a bad look. It's off brand for them, the " killers" to be getting their ass kicked in a fight....

Re: Who's taking over

by TommyGambino » Thu Jun 22, 2023 12:53 pm

TSNYC wrote: ↑Thu Jun 22, 2023 4:00 am Using faction loosely. Just mean the grouping of guys connected to and under Paradiso.
Wouldn’t surprise me if Paradiso is underboss, given what Capeci has been reporting

Re: Who's taking over

by gohnjotti » Thu Jun 22, 2023 11:00 am

B. wrote: ↑Mon Jun 19, 2023 3:28 pm Politics are a huge factor not necessarily manpower.

Look at the Castellammarese War where Valachi said the Gagliano faction was a tiny minority of the Luccheses and even when they teamed up with the Bonannos they were up against the entire Genovese Family and most of the Gambinos. But they made strategic hits and cultivated political support, it wasn't like the Families were sending all of their men onto a battlefield.

In the 90s Colombo War the Persicos had a small, tight-knit core of guys willing to kill and die for Carmine Persico while Orena had a lot of guys who were trying to take the path of least resistance and more or less fence-sitting when it came down to it.

Mancuso has had support outside the Bronx since he went to prison after becoming acting boss. Montagna, Santora, Rabito, Badalamenti, Palazzolo, Sciremammano, and likely others are either confirmed or implied supporters with ranking positions who have helped him secure power. More recently it looks like Jerry Asaro and Anthony Fasitta recognize his position so that is the powerful Asaro crew and the Sicilians in Queens who may be aligned with him. It does look like Cammarano gained the support of many guys for a time but like most conflicts these guys go with the wind.

What's more interesting to me is where the other Families sit. The Luccheses refused to recognize Mancuso and Cammarano looks to have had the support of the Genovese Family but as of right now all we know is Mancuso is very close to Colombo members. Those relationships are big in this.
I think you have hit it spot-on, especially with the Colombo analysis. I agree that I think Mancuso's power lies purely in his and his associates' propensity for violence, or at least the threat of violence, in the same way that despite the Orena faction "outnumbering" the Persico faction 3 to 1, they were relatively equal in terms of soldiers and associates willing to commit violence and wage war.

Re: Who's taking over

by TSNYC » Thu Jun 22, 2023 4:00 am

Using faction loosely. Just mean the grouping of guys connected to and under Paradiso.

Re: Who's taking over

by TommyGambino » Thu Jun 22, 2023 1:11 am

TSNYC wrote: ↑Wed Jun 21, 2023 6:43 pm
OcSleeper wrote: ↑Wed Jun 21, 2023 3:19 pm I think he also said he isn't because his father was killed by the mafia and there's some rule against sons of murdered me.bers becoming boss. Obviously a rule, like every rule, that isn't always followed, if true.
Joe Colombo’s dad was killed by mob.

Grillo is very tight with Paradiso and maybe takes over that particular faction when Paradiso dies. Guess that’d def give him some juice
What ‘faction’is that?

Re: Who's taking over

by TSNYC » Wed Jun 21, 2023 6:43 pm

OcSleeper wrote: ↑Wed Jun 21, 2023 3:19 pm I think he also said he isn't because his father was killed by the mafia and there's some rule against sons of murdered me.bers becoming boss. Obviously a rule, like every rule, that isn't always followed, if true.
Joe Colombo’s dad was killed by mob.

Grillo is very tight with Paradiso and maybe takes over that particular faction when Paradiso dies. Guess that’d def give him some juice

Re: Who's taking over

by OcSleeper » Wed Jun 21, 2023 3:19 pm

I think he also said he isn't because his father was killed by the mafia and there's some rule against sons of murdered me.bers becoming boss. Obviously a rule, like every rule, that isn't always followed, if true.

Re: Who's taking over

by chin_gigante » Wed Jun 21, 2023 2:09 pm

Pennisi has talked about Ernie Grillo being referred to as a potential future Gambino boss

Re: Who's taking over

by SonnyBlackstein » Tue Jun 20, 2023 7:39 pm

Great info both Camelot and Johnny.

That the feds never gave Esposito a rank is a first. I can't recall a previous example.
I would concur and view Ragusa as messengero between Barney and Ernie. Not an independent power. Ship tied to Barney.
Falcetti is a good name to throw in. Youth and Capo 116th. Most powerful crew, historical leadership.
If Barney had a heart attack tomorrow my guess would be Ernie official, Falcetti UB and Pagano consig.

Any thoughts of Chicago guys?

Re: Who's taking over

by JohnnyS » Tue Jun 20, 2023 12:50 pm

Joseph Ragusa is the president of the MMMCA and a trustee on the Metro-ILA funds. Falcetti is close friends with Harold Dagget.

Capeci described Muscarella as Barney's main man on the streets. He runs the family for Barney and serves in a similar but less visible role as Peter DiChiara did before he died. I imagine Ragusa acts as the go between from Barney/Muscarella to the captains. John Pennisi said in a video that during his time in the streets if you needed to get a message to Barney you went through a friend of his that is college educated. Can't say for sure but I suspect that's Michael Ragusa. Also, Danny Pagano may have served as street boss at some point. John Rubeo testified that Pagano was the street boss as well as being a captain.

Vincent Esposito was clearly a high ranking member but the feds never officially gave him a rank. As Sonny said, he had a list of NJ members and was in control of the Genovese slush fund. He was giving orders to soldiers Frank Giovinco and Steven Arena and was described by the feds as an influential decision maker and was said to be acting from a position of independence.

Re: Who's taking over

by InCamelot » Tue Jun 20, 2023 12:21 pm

SonnyBlackstein wrote: ↑Tue Jun 20, 2023 11:07 am
InCamelot wrote: ↑Tue Jun 20, 2023 10:24 am How come Patty Falcetti isn't as often mention as a future candidate for boss? He's young enough, with 116th and has seniority of Ragusa and Balsamo I would think.
Good call. I'd still rank Ernie above in seniority, but Patty is younger. I'd like to know the power dynamic between Pagano and Falcetti.
Wonder if Gigante also has clout. He had that list and the family bank. Wonder if that's put him on the outs. He does have pedigree.
Both Falcetti and Ragusa were/are involved in the ILA right? Could be that Ragusa is tapped as the messenger while still having less clout than Falcetti who stays in the background.

Re: Who's taking over

by SonnyBlackstein » Tue Jun 20, 2023 11:44 am

SonnyBlackstein wrote: ↑Tue Jun 20, 2023 11:07 am
InCamelot wrote: ↑Tue Jun 20, 2023 10:24 am How come Patty Falcetti isn't as often mention as a future candidate for boss? He's young enough, with 116th and has seniority of Ragusa and Balsamo I would think.
Good call. I'd still rank Ernie above in seniority, but Patty is younger. I'd like to know the power dynamic between Pagano and Falcetti.
Wonder if Gigante also has clout. He had that list and the family bank. Wonder if that's put him on the outs. He does have pedigree.
*I meant Esposito. Chins kid.

Re: Who's taking over

by SonnyBlackstein » Tue Jun 20, 2023 11:08 am

Uforeality wrote: ↑Tue Jun 20, 2023 3:29 am What about Detroit and Chicago? Are they that far depleted now?
Detroit I don't think anyone has any idea. Love to hear people's thoughts on Chi.

Re: Who's taking over

by SonnyBlackstein » Tue Jun 20, 2023 11:07 am

InCamelot wrote: ↑Tue Jun 20, 2023 10:24 am How come Patty Falcetti isn't as often mention as a future candidate for boss? He's young enough, with 116th and has seniority of Ragusa and Balsamo I would think.
Good call. I'd still rank Ernie above in seniority, but Patty is younger. I'd like to know the power dynamic between Pagano and Falcetti.
Wonder if Gigante also has clout. He had that list and the family bank. Wonder if that's put him on the outs. He does have pedigree.

Re: Who's taking over

by InCamelot » Tue Jun 20, 2023 10:24 am

How come Patty Falcetti isn't as often mention as a future candidate for boss? He's young enough, with 116th and has seniority of Ragusa and Balsamo I would think.

Top