THE BLACK HAND FORUM

CabriniGreen wrote: ↑Tue May 30, 2023 1:26 am

newera_212 wrote: ↑Mon May 29, 2023 8:29 pm Wish there was some more info on Spirito Sr. out there besides the little bit of stuff that's around. We've heard he's a "serious guy" and a "very respected guy" etc. - but I'd like to know why, basically. All that's really out there, is that he was under DeFilippo, he helped kill someone and served a long time in prison. Those last two things, the Bonnanos have a bunch guys with those credentials already, but without half the reputation that Spirito is alleged to have.

It's not 100% but going off of Capeci - if this guy was really given an official Captain position in the middle of a prison sentence, and was able to work directly with the Boss of another family to change situations for his people on the street (I know Prison is a different scene all together though) - he must really be something. At least to the guys in the Bronx anyway.

Does anyone know anything about Basicano and Spirito not getting along? I swear I remember reading something about that somewhere.

So let me ask this then.....

Did Cammaranno really fix the issue when he was on the street? Or was this issue between the Bonnanos and Luchesses actually solved by Spirito Sr. when he was behind the wall? I'm inclined to think the latter....

It would help explain why Cammaranno's leadership play with the capos didn't hold. If the Bonnano Bronx guys managed to first, neutralize the hostility, and then secure the Luchesse backing, and Colombos were already friendly, then Cammaranno would need BOTH Genovese and Gambino families on his side, or at LEAST, ONE of them voting against installing Mancuso. But no long term sitting boss like a Barney or Cefalu is going to be Pro voting out a sitting boss. Right?

newera_212 wrote: ↑Mon May 29, 2023 8:29 pm Wish there was some more info on Spirito Sr. out there besides the little bit of stuff that's around. We've heard he's a "serious guy" and a "very respected guy" etc. - but I'd like to know why, basically. All that's really out there, is that he was under DeFilippo, he helped kill someone and served a long time in prison. Those last two things, the Bonnanos have a bunch guys with those credentials already, but without half the reputation that Spirito is alleged to have.

It's not 100% but going off of Capeci - if this guy was really given an official Captain position in the middle of a prison sentence, and was able to work directly with the Boss of another family to change situations for his people on the street (I know Prison is a different scene all together though) - he must really be something. At least to the guys in the Bronx anyway.

Does anyone know anything about Basicano and Spirito not getting along? I swear I remember reading something about that somewhere.

newera_212 wrote: ↑Mon May 29, 2023 8:29 pm Does anyone know anything about Basicano and Spirito not getting along? I swear I remembe reading something about that somewhere.

B. wrote: ↑Sun May 28, 2023 11:15 pm Pennisi said when Cammarano took control he met with the Lucchese leadership and passed a list of the Spirito members after the fact to settle the issue. Sounds like they were able to get recognized.

Until we get definitive info on who was made by Spirito Jr. I'm not confident it was as bad as Pennisi made it sound. Saying he made twenty of his friends makes it sound like he brought in an army of Brendan Filones. Twenty could be an exaggeration and "friend" could mean anything. I at least take it to mean the Bronx faction was bringing in a bunch of their own guys and left the Luccheses out of the process. The Luccheses didn't recognize Mancuso as boss so it may have been in vain to pass a list anyway.

Who was it that allegedly shelved Spirito Jr.? Cammarano? Be surprising if Spirito Jr. made new members without his father and Mancuso's approval. He was authorized by them to be part of the acting leadership.

B. wrote: ↑Mon May 29, 2023 8:30 am

CabriniGreen wrote: ↑Mon May 29, 2023 2:25 am Like, he goes to see his father, who's what? A soldier? And comes back and makes himself acting underboss? Based off a visitation with his Dad? So what the fuck is his Dad's actual strength in the family? ( Now, I understand... it's that REGIME that really has control..)

Johnny or Chin can correct me, but I believe Capeci identified Spirito Sr. as a captain while he was in prison. Like Mancuso becoming boss after he went away, it looks like Spirito Sr. became a captain in prison then became underboss when he was released.

It does seem like Spirito Jr. was authorized to help run the Family while Mancuso and his father were in prison and there's the reference to him standing in as acting consigliere for an induction ceremony (maybe for symbolic reasons). I'd like to get more info on exactly what fake messages Spirito Jr. was accused of passing to the street -- was he actually making shit up or did the Cammarano faction simply disapprove of the moves he was making and make up an excuse to take his power away?

JohnnyS wrote: ↑Mon May 29, 2023 5:39 am

johnny_scootch wrote: ↑Mon May 29, 2023 5:20 am

JohnnyS wrote: ↑Mon May 29, 2023 3:49 am No surprise that when the brawl happened at Vito Grimaldi's wake, Johnny Joe jr was the one that punched Cammarano first. A lot of bad blood there.

Details like who hit who first are known? I’ve been away a while when and where did we learn that?

It was in the GL article.

Sources say that when Joe C approached the casket where Grimaldi was laid out on Tuesday July 19, Spirito Jr., backed up by a handful of mobsters, "punched him in the mouth and knocked him down," and began to pummel him when bikers wearing suits who accompanied Joe C into the wake immediately came to his aid when the fisticuffs began and pulled Spirito off him.

chin_gigante wrote: ↑Mon May 29, 2023 6:43 am

JohnnyS wrote: ↑Mon May 29, 2023 3:49 am Cammarano shelved him for bringing fake messages to and from Mancuso. Pennisi said that before he was shelved Cammarano brought him to a meeting with the Luccheses and reintroduced him to everyone there as a soldier.

That introduction happened later. Cammarano shelved Spirito Jr because of the fake messages he was bringing from prison, then at some point he took him off the shelf and reintroduced him to the new Lucchese administration. Pennisi heard this was done because Spirito Sr had been in prison with Amuso and was able to settle his son's problems with the Lucchese family. This occured around mid-2017, when DeSantis was the Lucchese acting boss and Andrew DiSimone had been made acting consigliere.

CabriniGreen wrote: ↑Mon May 29, 2023 2:25 am Like, he goes to see his father, who's what? A soldier? And comes back and makes himself acting underboss? Based off a visitation with his Dad? So what the fuck is his Dad's actual strength in the family? ( Now, I understand... it's that REGIME that really has control..)

JohnnyS wrote: ↑Mon May 29, 2023 3:49 am Cammarano shelved him for bringing fake messages to and from Mancuso. Pennisi said that before he was shelved Cammarano brought him to a meeting with the Luccheses and reintroduced him to everyone there as a soldier.

johnny_scootch wrote: ↑Mon May 29, 2023 5:20 am

JohnnyS wrote: ↑Mon May 29, 2023 3:49 am No surprise that when the brawl happened at Vito Grimaldi's wake, Johnny Joe jr was the one that punched Cammarano first. A lot of bad blood there.

Details like who hit who first are known? I’ve been away a while when and where did we learn that?

Sources say that when Joe C approached the casket where Grimaldi was laid out on Tuesday July 19, Spirito Jr., backed up by a handful of mobsters, "punched him in the mouth and knocked him down," and began to pummel him when bikers wearing suits who accompanied Joe C into the wake immediately came to his aid when the fisticuffs began and pulled Spirito off him.