THE BLACK HAND FORUM

PolackTony wrote: ↑Wed Aug 16, 2023 9:44 am

PolackTony wrote: ↑Mon May 29, 2023 7:53 pm

mike68 wrote: ↑Mon May 15, 2023 8:51 am

Philly d wrote: ↑Fri May 12, 2023 8:26 pm

mike68 wrote: ↑Fri Nov 13, 2020 6:44 pm Includes a quote from Jimmy Martorano, made man in the Patriarca's. Definitely the end of an era, last got pinched in his 80's for extortion

are the martoramaos full blood italian?

No, their father was from Sicily. There mother was believed to be of Irish descent.

Correct. Their father was Angelo Martorano, born in 1906 in Riesi, Caltanissetta (a town with a strong mafia tradition, though it seems to have produced few members in the US), while their mother was Elizabeth Hunt, who was born in MA to parents from England who were of at least partial Irish ancestry.

Worth noting here that Colombo captain Sebastiano “Buster” Aloi was Riesi and his family immigrated to Boston, where Buster Aloi seems to have lived until he married his wife Rosa Griffo (parents from San Cipirello) around 1931 and moved to Brooklyn. Aloi’s relatives all seem to have remained in MA, so they may well have known the Martoranos (Buster was born in 1907, so an age peer of Angelo Martorano).

PolackTony wrote: ↑Mon May 29, 2023 7:53 pm

mike68 wrote: ↑Mon May 15, 2023 8:51 am

Philly d wrote: ↑Fri May 12, 2023 8:26 pm

mike68 wrote: ↑Fri Nov 13, 2020 6:44 pm Includes a quote from Jimmy Martorano, made man in the Patriarca's. Definitely the end of an era, last got pinched in his 80's for extortion

are the martoramaos full blood italian?

No, their father was from Sicily. There mother was believed to be of Irish descent.

Correct. Their father was Angelo Martorano, born in 1906 in Riesi, Caltanissetta (a town with a strong mafia tradition, though it seems to have produced few members in the US), while their mother was Elizabeth Hunt, who was born in MA to parents from England who were of at least partial Irish ancestry.

mike68 wrote: ↑Mon May 15, 2023 8:51 am

Philly d wrote: ↑Fri May 12, 2023 8:26 pm

mike68 wrote: ↑Fri Nov 13, 2020 6:44 pm Includes a quote from Jimmy Martorano, made man in the Patriarca's. Definitely the end of an era, last got pinched in his 80's for extortion

are the martoramaos full blood italian?

No, their father was from Sicily. There mother was believed to be of Irish descent.

mike68 wrote: ↑Mon May 15, 2023 8:51 am

Philly d wrote: ↑Fri May 12, 2023 8:26 pm

mike68 wrote: ↑Fri Nov 13, 2020 6:44 pm Includes a quote from Jimmy Martorano, made man in the Patriarca's. Definitely the end of an era, last got pinched in his 80's for extortion

are the martoramaos full blood italian?

No, their father was from Sicily. There mother was believed to be of Irish descent.

Philly d wrote: ↑Fri May 12, 2023 8:26 pm

mike68 wrote: ↑Fri Nov 13, 2020 6:44 pm Includes a quote from Jimmy Martorano, made man in the Patriarca's. Definitely the end of an era, last got pinched in his 80's for extortion

are the martoramaos full blood italian?

davidf1989 wrote: ↑Sat May 13, 2023 1:07 am

Philly d wrote: ↑Fri May 12, 2023 8:26 pm

mike68 wrote: ↑Fri Nov 13, 2020 6:44 pm Includes a quote from Jimmy Martorano, made man in the Patriarca's. Definitely the end of an era, last got pinched in his 80's for extortion

are the martoramaos full blood italian?

I thought they were half Irish and that it was the Flemmi brothers who were fully Italian

Philly d wrote: ↑Fri May 12, 2023 8:26 pm

mike68 wrote: ↑Fri Nov 13, 2020 6:44 pm Includes a quote from Jimmy Martorano, made man in the Patriarca's. Definitely the end of an era, last got pinched in his 80's for extortion

are the martoramaos full blood italian?

mike68 wrote: ↑Fri Nov 13, 2020 6:44 pm Includes a quote from Jimmy Martorano, made man in the Patriarca's. Definitely the end of an era, last got pinched in his 80's for extortion

JakeTheSnake630 wrote: ↑Fri Nov 13, 2020 2:40 pm Original member of Winter Hill Gang Howie Winter died last night

davidf1989 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 20, 2022 8:27 pm

Hired_Goonz wrote: ↑Sun Nov 15, 2020 7:14 pm

JakeTheSnake630 wrote: ↑Sun Nov 15, 2020 8:42 am Anyone know any murders Howie allegedly did? He seems like more of a diplomat and peacemaker but im sure he got his hands dirty a couple times.

In the book Hitman, Johnny Martorano describes all of the murders he committed and there are a few where if you read between the lines he's naming Howie as a shooter. He describes a pair of shootings where they were trying to kill this guy named Indian Al, and he and "the guy from Somerville" were the shooters. In the first one they actually shot killed an innocent guy (a bartender named Michael Milano) and wounded his passenger, crippling him for life. They didn't actually know their target as it was a favour for Jerry Angiulo and somebody wrongfully ID'd Milano's Benz as Indian Al's. Later they shot up a car that Al was riding in, but he survived and got away. The driver's name was Al Plummer and he was the only one who died. In both cases Martorano says he was in the front seat with a grease gun while "the guy from Somerville" was in the back with an AR-15, Jimmy Sims was driving and Whitey was driving the crash car. Then there is another shooting with the same line-up where Ralph DeMasi (who was the target) is wounded but survives but the driver William O'Brian was killed. Same guys involved in the shooting, only difference is Johnny was using a carbine instead of the grease gun.

It's clear that the Somerville guy is Winter because they explicitly state that the murders are handled by the "partners" i.e. the bosses of the Winter Hill gang, and yet all 4 of the other partners are named (Whitey, Sims, Joe McDonald and Martorano) so it's obvious who they mean.

He directly names Howie as a participant in the Eddie Connors murder but maybe he thinks it's not as big of a deal because he didn't pull the trigger. In that murder Howie told the victim to wait at a pay phone at a certain time, the shooters were Whitey and Stevie Flemmi while Martorano was the getaway driver. It's pretty crazy to rat out a guy for multiple murders to the FBI and not have to testify against him lol but Johnny got the sweetheart deal of a lifetime and still gets to tell himself "you can't rat on a rat".
[/quot

Was Howie Winter the only guy from the Winter Hill Gang who didn't inform on anyone? This article from the Boston Globe in 2005 talks about Winter, Bulger, Flemmi and Salemme.

https://www.newspapers.com/clip/8420777 ... er-part-1/

https://www.newspapers.com/clip/8420792 ... er-part-2/

Joe McDonald never co-operared either. He died in 1997 just as things were really heating up in Boston and if he lived he definitely would have been charged with the Wheeler murder so who knows how that would have played out.

Hired_Goonz wrote: ↑Sun Nov 15, 2020 7:14 pm

JakeTheSnake630 wrote: ↑Sun Nov 15, 2020 8:42 am Anyone know any murders Howie allegedly did? He seems like more of a diplomat and peacemaker but im sure he got his hands dirty a couple times.

In the book Hitman, Johnny Martorano describes all of the murders he committed and there are a few where if you read between the lines he's naming Howie as a shooter. He describes a pair of shootings where they were trying to kill this guy named Indian Al, and he and "the guy from Somerville" were the shooters. In the first one they actually shot killed an innocent guy (a bartender named Michael Milano) and wounded his passenger, crippling him for life. They didn't actually know their target as it was a favour for Jerry Angiulo and somebody wrongfully ID'd Milano's Benz as Indian Al's. Later they shot up a car that Al was riding in, but he survived and got away. The driver's name was Al Plummer and he was the only one who died. In both cases Martorano says he was in the front seat with a grease gun while "the guy from Somerville" was in the back with an AR-15, Jimmy Sims was driving and Whitey was driving the crash car. Then there is another shooting with the same line-up where Ralph DeMasi (who was the target) is wounded but survives but the driver William O'Brian was killed. Same guys involved in the shooting, only difference is Johnny was using a carbine instead of the grease gun.

It's clear that the Somerville guy is Winter because they explicitly state that the murders are handled by the "partners" i.e. the bosses of the Winter Hill gang, and yet all 4 of the other partners are named (Whitey, Sims, Joe McDonald and Martorano) so it's obvious who they mean.

He directly names Howie as a participant in the Eddie Connors murder but maybe he thinks it's not as big of a deal because he didn't pull the trigger. In that murder Howie told the victim to wait at a pay phone at a certain time, the shooters were Whitey and Stevie Flemmi while Martorano was the getaway driver. It's pretty crazy to rat out a guy for multiple murders to the FBI and not have to testify against him lol but Johnny got the sweetheart deal of a lifetime and still gets to tell himself "you can't rat on a rat".
[/quot

Was Howie Winter the only guy from the Winter Hill Gang who didn't inform on anyone? This article from the Boston Globe in 2005 talks about Winter, Bulger, Flemmi and Salemme.

https://www.newspapers.com/clip/8420777 ... er-part-1/

https://www.newspapers.com/clip/8420792 ... er-part-2/