THE BLACK HAND FORUM

by B. » Fri Oct 20, 2023 1:52 pm

We recorded two long Chicago episodes with Snakes in August, not sure the status.

My work schedule got insane so my availability has been very limited and it's hard to coordinate between multiple people in different times zones. I hope to be back at it more consistently maybe by the end of the year.

by **Don_Peppino** » Fri Oct 20, 2023 12:11 pm

Are you guys holding back content like Gotti keep the tapes from Big Paul??? Lol.

by **Angelo Santino** » Sat May 13, 2023 10:17 am

I didn't say that I believed it. Just reporting what he said.

by **scagghiuni** » Sat May 13, 2023 7:55 am

Angelo Santino wrote: ↑Sat May 13, 2023 4:00 am The person B. and I spoke with was insistent that the stidda was much older, that it goes back to the 19th century. All I know of stidda I read on the internet which all alluded to it forming in the 80's in response to Riina.

the Stidda was formed in the 1980s by Salvatore Calafato, Aurelio Cavallo, Carlo Zicchitella and others, they wanted to react against the Corleonesi regime of terror, they were not present before, Buscetta never talked about them

by **LarryC** » Sat May 13, 2023 6:39 am

Angelo Santino wrote: ↑Sat May 13, 2023 4:00 am The person B. and I spoke with was insistent that the stidda was much older, that it goes back to the 19th century. All I know of stidda I read on the internet which all alluded to it forming in the 80's in response to Riina.

I can’t see that, or agree with that, at all. If anything, I know in the 70’s they were forming, but didn’t emerge in full force until the corleonisi killed a top mafia boss and started their tirade on cosa nostra. Stidda started recruiting anyone who aligned with their beliefs, including children, and increased their numbers immensely, leading into the second mafia war in the 80’s.
Before then, they may have been a bunch of unknown gangsters with their own ideas but it’s hard to say, I don’t know of any stiddari pentito.
Back to the 19th century, though, I can’t believe that.

by **LarryC** » Sat May 13, 2023 6:32 am

CabriniGreen wrote: ↑Fri May 12, 2023 9:27 pm
LarryC wrote: ↑Fri May 12, 2023 4:41 am Most interesting times of modern Agrigento were mid 80’s when the war broke out between la stidda and cosa nostra. Stidda being outted members of cosa nostra trying to take over. Stidda taking out one of the bosses of cosa nostra, then were retaliated on, and so it began. Giuseppe Grassonelli being the boss of la stidda at the time.

In Sicily you don’t finish a war until you extinguish an entire family name, so many cosa nostra took their families and moved them out of Agrigento and to palermo and other areas.

Today you have those same stiddari families marrying into the CN families they were once at war with. Stidda has been absorbed by CN in agrigento.
Isnt it more of a coexistence between the organizations?

Sicilian organized crime presents itself with different characteristics in the various areas of the region and the
Report reconstructs the mafia geography. In western Sicily 'cosa nostra' remains structured in districts and families: in the province of Agrigento there is still a "zone" permeable to the influence of another organization, the so-called "stidda", "which has managed over the years to raise his criminal stature to the point of establishing pacts of mutual convenience with the other families

https://www.agrigentonotizie.it/cronaca ... tidda.html

They did sign a peace agreement and have worked together on things such as gambling. However, there are only a few pockets of them in areas, and places such as Porto Empedocle, where they once thrived, they’ve accepted the rules of cosa nostra and assimilated. That’s what I meant by being absorbed.

The Italian media love to sensationalize their importance still. They inflate numbers. Just like they report on these huge blitzes of hundreds of mafiosi, and never go back to report 3/4 of them were released almost immediately.

by **Angelo Santino** » Sat May 13, 2023 4:00 am

The person B. and I spoke with was insistent that the stidda was much older, that it goes back to the 19th century. All I know of stidda I read on the internet which all alluded to it forming in the 80's in response to Riina.

by **CabriniGreen** » Fri May 12, 2023 9:27 pm

LarryC wrote: ↑Fri May 12, 2023 4:41 am Most interesting times of modern Agrigento were mid 80’s when the war broke out between la stidda and cosa nostra. Stidda being outted members of cosa nostra trying to take over. Stidda taking out one of the bosses of cosa nostra, then were retaliated on, and so it began. Giuseppe Grassonelli being the boss of la stidda at the time.

In Sicily you don’t finish a war until you extinguish an entire family name, so many cosa nostra took their families and moved them out of Agrigento and to palermo and other areas.

Today you have those same stiddari families marrying into the CN families they were once at war with. Stidda has been absorbed by CN in agrigento.

Isnt it more of a coexistence between the organizations?

Sicilian organized crime presents itself with different characteristics in the various areas of the region and the
Report reconstructs the mafia geography. In western Sicily 'cosa nostra' remains structured in districts and families: in the province of Agrigento there is still a "zone" permeable to the influence of another organization, the so-called "stidda", "which has managed over the years to raise his criminal stature to the point of establishing pacts of mutual convenience with the other families

https://www.agrigentonotizie.it/cronaca ... tidda.html

by **LarryC** » Fri May 12, 2023 2:05 pm

B. wrote: ↑Fri May 12, 2023 1:01 pm Oh cool. How is the book?

The one I spoke to had relatives in Naro and surrounding comuni.

Very good book. It’s centered around Porto Empedocle, though. About how he (Giuseppe Grassonelli) came to want to go against cosa nostra, then how they killed his family and then came for him. Then how he killed so many in retaliation, including the boss of Porto Empedocle, which led to the war.
He won an award for the book and had since tried to justify his release from prison, but that’s not happening.

It’s written in Italian, of course.

by B. » Fri May 12, 2023 1:01 pm

Oh cool. How is the book?

The one I spoke to had relatives in Naro and surrounding comuni.

by **LarryC** » Fri May 12, 2023 9:01 am

^^^^ ** Giuseppe Grassonelli

by **LarryC** » Fri May 12, 2023 9:01 am

B. wrote: ↑Fri May 12, 2023 8:42 am
LarryC wrote: ↑Fri May 12, 2023 4:41 am Most interesting times of modern Agrigento were mid 80’s when the war broke out between la stidda and cosa nostra. Stidda being outted members of cosa nostra trying to take over. Stidda taking out one of the bosses of cosa nostra, then were retaliated on, and so it began. Giuseppe Grassonelli being the boss of la stidda at the time.

In Sicily you don’t finish a war until you extinguish an entire family name, so many cosa nostra took their families and moved them out of Agrigento and to palermo and other areas.

Today you have those same stiddari families marrying into the CN families they were once at war with. Stidda has been absorbed by CN in agrigento.
The Stidda is very interesting. Angelo and I spoke to someone a few years ago who had relatives that were members of Cosa Nostra in Agrigento and other relatives that were Stidda.

Giuseppe Grasselli of La Stidda, wrote a book from prison about his life and the wars of porto empedocle, titled: Malerba: Vida a merte en Sicilia. His sister is now married to a member of cosa nostra, whose father they killed.

by B. » Fri May 12, 2023 8:42 am

LarryC wrote: ↑Fri May 12, 2023 4:41 am Most interesting times of modern Agrigento were mid 80’s when the war broke out between la stidda and cosa nostra. Stidda being outted members of cosa nostra trying to take over. Stidda taking out one of the bosses of cosa nostra, then were retaliated on, and so it began. Giuseppe Grassonelli being the boss of la stidda at the time.

In Sicily you don’t finish a war until you extinguish an entire family name, so many cosa nostra took their families and moved them out of Agrigento and to palermo and other areas.

Today you have those same stiddari families marrying into the CN families they were once at war with. Stidda has been absorbed by CN in agrigento.

The Stidda is very interesting. Angelo and I spoke to someone a few years ago who had relatives that were members of Cosa Nostra in Agrigento and other relatives that were Stidda.

by **LarryC** » Fri May 12, 2023 4:41 am

Most interesting times of modern Agrigento were mid 80’s when the war broke out between la stidda and cosa nostra. Stidda being outted members of cosa nostra trying to take over. Stidda taking out one of the bosses of cosa nostra, then were retaliated on, and so it began. Giuseppe Grassonelli being the boss of la stidda at the time.

In Sicily you don’t finish a war until you extinguish an entire family name, so many cosa nostra took their families and moved them out of Agrigento and to palermo and other areas.

Today you have those same stiddari families marrying into the CN families they were once at war with. Stidda has been absorbed by CN in agrigento.

by **InCamelot** » Thu May 11, 2023 3:36 pm

Might also be interesting to take a recent piece of mob news that most casual mob-watchers know about, and not really speculate too much on it, but discuss historical "echoes" it might have.

Like if the piece of news is about Vinny Asaro for example, then maybe talk about how there's a lot more to Asaro's place in LCN history than meets the eye (ie: beyond Goodfellas heist fame). Or, if folks online are celebrating the anniversary of Goodfellas --for example, might be an interesting time to talk about how little we actually know about the Lucchese's.

THE BLACK HAND FORUM

Upcoming TMA Agrigento faction episode.

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