THE BLACK HAND FORUM

I think Capeci wrote that Mancuso was being updated on what was going on in Canada about 5 years ago.

I think the biggest winners in the war in Canada were guys like me who enjoy reading about mob killings, such as 80-something Nicolo Rizzuto getting picked off by a sniper while the women of his family prepared dinner in the next room or Sal Montagna flying out of a house all shot up and then dying while trying to escape by swimming across a river, that sound like something Puzo and Coppola came up with for the baptism hits montage in The Godfather but left on the cutting room floor because they were too detrimental to suspension of disbelief.

Angelo Santino wrote: ↑Wed Mar 22, 2023 4:59 pm The sixth family. "The bonannos can claim NY as their territory whereas the Rizzutos can lay claim to the world." First chapter, it's there.

This actually sounds like the Caruanas- Cuntreras who by that point were in Canada, South America, Rome, and I think Miami. I really think they kinda confused the 2, in fact they might have they FUSED the two together....

Like, to me they might be fly in the ointment. Everything attributed to the Rizzutos as far as the drugs, I think this is actually the Caruanas- Cuntreras. I think the Rizzutos handled distribution for them in the form of Sciascia's presence in NY, but I think the Caruanas really held the purse strings. THEY were the actual family soverign, with sanction from the Cupola. Like, THATS the OTHER crime family. It's a fact they were the brokers for 6 major Ndrangheta clans after Sicily came under harsh police investigation after all the bombings. They were the worldwide clan.

Take Mafia Inc. Motorfab reccomended it as an alternative to the 6th family. This book is exactly the same as 6th family. It's just instead of a new Mafia "State/Government" , they describe it as a corporation.
And they provide an entirely different organizational chart based on family ties.

It just seems beyond the drugs getting to NY, they really didn't care much about Montreal, and frankly, after what I've seen with the Musitanos and Buffalo, Buffalo didn't really give a fuck about Ontario either. So what I see is in general is NY being pretty lackadaisical towards the Canadian operations.

The sixth family. "The bonannos can claim NY as their territory whereas the Rizzutos can lay claim to the world." First chapter, it's there.

Are there books or articles out there about the "Bonanno decina" that push the idea that Rizzuto's influence was limited to an acting captain title granted by NYC?

It's true that this group was a Bonanno decina and Rizzuto held that title but I don't see much focus on it outside of a few board members here. Most coverage overlooks it entirely in favor of the "Montreal Family" and "Montreal Godfather" idea which hasn't been substantiated in formal terms by available intel and brings up questions about greater mafia politics, recognition, etc.

SonnyBlackstein wrote: ↑Wed Mar 22, 2023 4:21 pm

B. wrote: ↑Wed Mar 22, 2023 4:19 pm Cabrini, can I ask you who believes the Bonannos control all crime in Canada?

Not speaking for anyone but nobody believes that. I would suggest Cabrini is referring to Montreal

Let's call it Quebec... even though Vito made tremendous inroads into Ontario too...

SonnyBlackstein wrote: ↑Wed Mar 22, 2023 4:21 pm

B. wrote: ↑Wed Mar 22, 2023 4:19 pm Cabrini, can I ask you who believes the Bonannos control all crime in Canada?

Not speaking for anyone but nobody believes that. I would suggest Cabrini is referring to Montreal

Same question applies. Who believes that or pushes that narrative?

B. wrote: ↑Wed Mar 22, 2023 4:19 pm Cabrini, can I ask you who believes the Bonannos control all crime in Canada?

Not speaking for anyone but nobody believes that. I would suggest Cabrini is referring to Montreal

CabriniGreen wrote: ↑Wed Mar 22, 2023 4:17 pm

SonnyBlackstein wrote: ↑Wed Mar 22, 2023 3:58 pm

B. wrote: ↑Wed Mar 22, 2023 3:56 pm I don't think he mentioned Mancuso specifically but we can infer he was aware of Montreal through his relationship with Montagna.

Mancuso was Bascianos acting additionally.

I thought.... he was acting underboss, and the " final word" but he didn't name him acting boss, I think...

You're probably correct. I was loose with the deets. I meant he was no1 on the street.

Cabrini, can I ask you who believes the Bonannos control all crime in Canada? Is that how you interpret people who are interested in details that indicate a relationship still exists/existed post-1999? I don't see that narrative at all from likeminded people and can't actually think of a single person on here, nor any authors, journalists, etc. who believe that. If anything, all of the emphasis is on the opposite idea.

I agree myself that you can't understand Montreal, be it as a city or an organized crime landscape, just by looking at the Bonanno connections. I'm still interested in the Bonanno connections though and can't dismiss them when references surface. Bonanno affiliation also played a central role in the 2009-2011 conflict(s).

SonnyBlackstein wrote: ↑Wed Mar 22, 2023 3:58 pm

B. wrote: ↑Wed Mar 22, 2023 3:56 pm I don't think he mentioned Mancuso specifically but we can infer he was aware of Montreal through his relationship with Montagna.

Mancuso was Bascianos acting additionally.

I thought.... he was acting underboss, and the " final word" but he didn't name him acting boss, I think...

I'll say this..

Much has been said about how Montreal has been overhyped, and not a family, and I myself said recently that Vito Rizzutos charisma has been mistaken for authority.

But there is a flip side to all this too..

I don't think whatever hierarchy that applies to the Bonnano regime is directly translational to the Greater criminal landscape of Canada. It's like people think the Bonnanos really control all crime in Canada. The Hells, the Irish, Lebanese, Street gangs, all these are not UNDER the mafia. They are criminal entities in their own right that coalesce around a central reference, which historically was a Bonnano decina. The criminal landscape in Canada has more in common with an Ndrangheta Crimine than a traditional LCN hierarchy.

Listen to Arillotta talk about his crew. How he said to OUTSIDERS ( The new buzzword, lol) these guys were UNDER him, but in actuality they were his partners, independents, who kind of "orbit" around him. If you were to make an accurate chart, it would probably look like the Canadian charts, with one guy or group in the middle, and everyone in an orbital around the central figure. He was the central reference. Canada is like 40 Arrilottas types...

I mean Buffalo never OWNED Ontario either. It's really silly if you think about it. If I said a SINGLE decina could control, any of the boroughs, say Brooklyn, this would be nonsense. But we readily accept that Quebec or Ontario could be OWNED by a single decina. Why?

To me, Morena actually proved the Bonnanos lost Montreal, but understood that and were trying to rebuild the thing that it was important for in the first place, the drug routes.

And I continue to be intrigued by this Bonvonta clan...


And half the stuff Cicale said seems plausible, but some stuff is off to me....

I've said before I don't think Montagna's actions in Montreal were without Mancuso's backing. Obviously many other moving pieces at play there but as for that period Montagna likely had the blessing if not encouragement to reorganize Montreal on behalf of the Bonanno leadership and from what's come out Montagna may have been a Bonanno capodecina / leader attempting to install a new Bonanno capodecina in Montreal separate from Montagna's own rank.

I learned recently that Vito Grimaldi was among the Bonanno members holding meetings in NYC in relation to the Montreal conflict. We know Vinny Asaro also attended a members only meeting with Jack and Nana Bonventre to discuss Montagna's murder but unfortunately Gary Valenti had to wait outside. Capeci also reported that NYC was buzzing about Montreal gossip during that period.

B. wrote: ↑Wed Mar 22, 2023 3:56 pm I don't think he mentioned Mancuso specifically but we can infer he was aware of Montreal through his relationship with Montagna.

Mancuso was Bascianos acting additionally.

He was told by Baldo Amato in prison that Sal Montagna requested a larger amount of Christmas tribute from Montreal on behalf of Basciano and they reluctantly agreed. He also said Basciano remained in contact with Vito Rizzuto and that Montreal members visited NYC to facilitate drug deals.

I don't think he mentioned Mancuso specifically but we can infer he was aware of Montreal through his relationship with Montagna.