THE BLACK HAND FORUM

NorthBuffalo wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2024 1:28 pm

Patrickgold wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2024 12:54 pm I recently heard Tony Q owns a lot of out of state strip clubs, not just Pole Katz. Not sure of the states but I believe some to be in Texas. Here is a link to one he owned in Ohio. Not bad for a former Franklin Park police officer. Obviously someone is bank rolling him.

https://www.wtol.com/article/news/wtol- ... 6b60dea336

Patrick you should really look into the Mandell wiretaps - as they were explained to me by this guy I trust, Mandell and Michael are speculating that Quaranta (who lives in Indiana) and Stavroupolos are cutting up strip club proceeds in Elmwood Park on a daily basis early in the morning at a place near Armands. The reason that concerns Mandell is that he suspects that means one thing - there is a guy in Elmwood Park they meet to hand money to. On a daily basis I might add - sounds exhausting.

https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/ ... ichael.pdf

Patrickgold wrote: ↑Mon Jul 15, 2024 9:44 am

Cosmik_Debris wrote: ↑Mon Jul 15, 2024 9:15 am

NorthBuffalo wrote: ↑Mon Jul 15, 2024 6:21 am Handsome is actually Albert Vena.

Of all the descriptions I can think of to call Vena, "Handsome" isn't one.

I would agree on that. That’s why I’m a little confused.

Cosmik_Debris wrote: ↑Mon Jul 15, 2024 9:15 am

NorthBuffalo wrote: ↑Mon Jul 15, 2024 6:21 am Handsome is actually Albert Vena.

Of all the descriptions I can think of to call Vena, "Handsome" isn't one.

NorthBuffalo wrote: ↑Mon Jul 15, 2024 6:21 am Handsome is actually Albert Vena.

NorthBuffalo wrote: ↑Mon Jul 15, 2024 6:21 am

PolackTony wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2024 7:38 pm

Patrickgold wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2024 4:00 pm

NorthBuffalo wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2024 1:28 pm

Patrickgold wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2024 12:54 pm I recently heard Tony Q owns a lot of out of state strip clubs, not just Pole Katz. Not sure of the states but I believe some to be in Texas. Here is a link to one he owned in Ohio. Not bad for a former Franklin Park police officer. Obviously someone is bank rolling him.

https://www.wtol.com/article/news/wtol- ... 6b60dea336

Patrick you should really look into the Mandell wiretaps - as they were explained to me by this guy I trust, Mandell and Michael are speculating that Quaranta (who lives in Indiana) and Stavroupolos are cutting up strip club proceeds in Elmwood Park on a daily basis early in the morning at a place near Armands. The reason that concerns Mandell is that he suspects that means one thing - there is a guy in Elmwood Park they meet to hand money to. On a daily basis I might add - sounds exhausting.

https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/ ... ichael.pdf

Sounds like the handsome guy they are talking about is Gary Gags. He use to live around Harlem and North and he’s a EP guy so that makes sense they were dropping money off to him possibly

Good call.

Handsome is actually Albert Vena. He is telling Mandell essentially not to fuck with Quaranta/Stravoupolos because they are paying someone in Elmwood Park - that came out in court. The question is who in Elmwood Park - Gags is a good guess - I wondered Matassa as well.

PolackTony wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2024 7:38 pm

Patrickgold wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2024 4:00 pm

NorthBuffalo wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2024 1:28 pm

Patrickgold wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2024 12:54 pm I recently heard Tony Q owns a lot of out of state strip clubs, not just Pole Katz. Not sure of the states but I believe some to be in Texas. Here is a link to one he owned in Ohio. Not bad for a former Franklin Park police officer. Obviously someone is bank rolling him.

https://www.wtol.com/article/news/wtol- ... 6b60dea336

Patrick you should really look into the Mandell wiretaps - as they were explained to me by this guy I trust, Mandell and Michael are speculating that Quaranta (who lives in Indiana) and Stavroupolos are cutting up strip club proceeds in Elmwood Park on a daily basis early in the morning at a place near Armands. The reason that concerns Mandell is that he suspects that means one thing - there is a guy in Elmwood Park they meet to hand money to. On a daily basis I might add - sounds exhausting.

https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/ ... ichael.pdf

Sounds like the handsome guy they are talking about is Gary Gags. He use to live around Harlem and North and he’s a EP guy so that makes sense they were dropping money off to him possibly

Good call.

Ivan wrote: ↑Sun Jul 14, 2024 9:21 am Anyone know the year Louie Rainone got out of jail? Can't find it online anywhere. Illinois inmate search looks like it doesn't list former inmates who are now free unless I'm fucking it up somehow (definite nonzero probability of that ).

PolackTony wrote: ↑Sun Jul 14, 2024 9:26 am

Patrickgold wrote: ↑Sat Jul 13, 2024 9:14 pm

chicagodog wrote: ↑Sat Jul 13, 2024 8:50 pm

PolackTony wrote: ↑Wed Jul 10, 2024 12:23 pm

Ivan wrote: ↑Wed Jul 10, 2024 11:16 am

PolackTony wrote: ↑Wed Jul 10, 2024 10:26 am Baltimore Jail, in a TV show, is not the same as the IL prison system, which, as Patrick said, is run by Folks and People. Old heads, unless disgraced or run out, are still with their organization. Guys like Panozzo and Koroluk are absolutely going to be with the Folks in the joint. These dynamics often aren’t well-grasped by people who only know the mafia side of things. I remember seeing stuff online a few years back like “wow, these guys were kidnapping Latin Kings, they’re gonna be in a lot of trouble in prison!”, when we’re talking about dudes who came up pulling raids and ambush attacks, etc., on Kings, who have been their primary enemies for decades. These guys were formed in a world of urban gang warfare and prison gang politics.

Imagine what the younger cohorts of C-Notes think of guys like Panozzo and Koroluk, not to mention Albie Vena. These dudes are far from nobodies when they hit the IL system. Middle aged, and even older, guys run the system in the prison. White doesn’t matter, it’s not like CA or Texas. C-Notes are “Latin Folks”, and in the joint that is what matters.

This is really fascinating stuff that I don't know much about, thanks for spelling it out like that.

So how would Cosa Nostra affiliation factor into all of this in an Illinois jail? Would it be relevant at all?

I don’t have any insight myself as to what LCN itself might mean in the IL system today. I’d suspect that they are “respected” in the way that the mob is “respected” by street guys in other states. I never did time myself but obviously knew a lot of guys who did serious time in Joliet, Stateville, etc back in the day and just recall general comments about mob guys being respected and having clout but no specifics. Any guys back in Chicago that I used to know who have done any time recently are not people that I would like to rekindle contact with, for obvious reasons, but if I talk to anyone who might be in the position to have some insight I will definitely post about it.

I’ve referenced the Lucchese associate from Brooklyn who was working with Chicago guys in the late 90s/2000s before. FWIW, he had a very high opinion of Chicago gang leaders (“those guys are true gangsters”) and also said that in the Federal system there is a lot of mutual respect and contact between Chicago gangbangers and LCN affiliates.

One thing that makes this topic a bit difficult to parse is that in recent decades, whatever respect LCN may still have in the IL system is, I think, not easy to disentangle from their intimate connections to the street gang world. While Grand Ave has very close ties to the C-Notes, who are Folks, Cicero has the same sort of ties to the People via the Players. There have also been various ties between LCN affiliates over the years with Kings, as well as with major Folks organizations like the Maniac Latin Disciples and Spanish Cobras (both of which had significant connections to people in local politics and the latter of which was the organization that actually sponsored the C-Notes to join the Folks). I know that I’ve brought this up several times over the years, but anyone interested in these things at all needs to read “The In$and Chicago Way” by UIC criminologist John Hagedorn. The book discusses the politics of the Latin Folks both on the streets and inside the joint in the 90s, connections between the Grand Ave crew and the Latin Folks aka “Spanish Growth and Development”, and longer standing ties between the outfit and black street gangs like the VLs and BPSN. I can say that the accounts that Hagedorn received from his informants with the Latin Folks align with what I was told and and understood when I was on the streets in the 90s.

https://chicagoreader.com/arts-culture/ ... ino-gangs/

Just look at Caruso III. If he was any other Bridgeport kid he would have probably been killed in prison or at least would have gotten fucked with. Even in Sheridan he was protected. There’s too many instances of Outfit influence on politics. Sometimes I feel like a conspiracy theorist but there’s something going on.

Carusos got the backing of Gator Bradley a GD which helped protect Caruso Jr in prison. Also probably helped kill witness Michael Cutler in the Austin neighborhood. That was a straight up hit. Nothing taken. Two guys with a mask

Yes, the Carusos made a big show of their ties to Gator Bradley and other leaders in the Southside black community at that time. You’ll recall how high profile all of this was in the local media following the Clark beating. In more recent years, there was that photo of Caruso Sr in the front row of church with a bunch of black pastors. It is clear that they have had some strong ties to people with clout in that sphere. Their connections to City government and public services are of course very longstanding, and likely this has also given them influence with some black leaders, I would think.

Patrickgold wrote: ↑Sat Jul 13, 2024 9:14 pm

chicagodog wrote: ↑Sat Jul 13, 2024 8:50 pm

PolackTony wrote: ↑Wed Jul 10, 2024 12:23 pm

Ivan wrote: ↑Wed Jul 10, 2024 11:16 am

PolackTony wrote: ↑Wed Jul 10, 2024 10:26 am Baltimore Jail, in a TV show, is not the same as the IL prison system, which, as Patrick said, is run by Folks and People. Old heads, unless disgraced or run out, are still with their organization. Guys like Panozzo and Koroluk are absolutely going to be with the Folks in the joint. These dynamics often aren’t well-grasped by people who only know the mafia side of things. I remember seeing stuff online a few years back like “wow, these guys were kidnapping Latin Kings, they’re gonna be in a lot of trouble in prison!”, when we’re talking about dudes who came up pulling raids and ambush attacks, etc., on Kings, who have been their primary enemies for decades. These guys were formed in a world of urban gang warfare and prison gang politics.

Imagine what the younger cohorts of C-Notes think of guys like Panozzo and Koroluk, not to mention Albie Vena. These dudes are far from nobodies when they hit the IL system. Middle aged, and even older, guys run the system in the prison. White doesn’t matter, it’s not like CA or Texas. C-Notes are “Latin Folks”, and in the joint that is what matters.

This is really fascinating stuff that I don't know much about, thanks for spelling it out like that.

So how would Cosa Nostra affiliation factor into all of this in an Illinois jail? Would it be relevant at all?

I don’t have any insight myself as to what LCN itself might mean in the IL system today. I’d suspect that they are “respected” in the way that the mob is “respected” by street guys in other states. I never did time myself but obviously knew a lot of guys who did serious time in Joliet, Stateville, etc back in the day and just recall general comments about mob guys being respected and having clout but no specifics. Any guys back in Chicago that I used to know who have done any time recently are not people that I would like to rekindle contact with, for obvious reasons, but if I talk to anyone who might be in the position to have some insight I will definitely post about it.

I’ve referenced the Lucchese associate from Brooklyn who was working with Chicago guys in the late 90s/2000s before. FWIW, he had a very high opinion of Chicago gang leaders (“those guys are true gangsters”) and also said that in the Federal system there is a lot of mutual respect and contact between Chicago gangbangers and LCN affiliates.

One thing that makes this topic a bit difficult to parse is that in recent decades, whatever respect LCN may still have in the IL system is, I think, not easy to disentangle from their intimate connections to the street gang world. While Grand Ave has very close ties to the C-Notes, who are Folks, Cicero has the same sort of ties to the People via the Players. There have also been various ties between LCN affiliates over the years with Kings, as well as with major Folks organizations like the Maniac Latin Disciples and Spanish Cobras (both of which had significant connections to people in local politics and the latter of which was the organization that actually sponsored the C-Notes to join the Folks). I know that I’ve brought this up several times over the years, but anyone interested in these things at all needs to read “The In$and Chicago Way” by UIC criminologist John Hagedorn. The book discusses the politics of the Latin Folks both on the streets and inside the joint in the 90s, connections between the Grand Ave crew and the Latin Folks aka “Spanish Growth and Development”, and longer standing ties between the outfit and black street gangs like the VLs and BPSN. I can say that the accounts that Hagedorn received from his informants with the Latin Folks align with what I was told and and understood when I was on the streets in the 90s.

https://chicagoreader.com/arts-culture/ ... ino-gangs/

Just look at Caruso III. If he was any other Bridgeport kid he would have probably been killed in prison or at least would have gotten fucked with. Even in Sheridan he was protected. There’s too many instances of Outfit influence on politics. Sometimes I feel like a conspiracy theorist but there’s something going on.

Carusos got the backing of Gator Bradley a GD which helped protect Caruso Jr in prison. Also probably helped kill witness Michael Cutler in the Austin neighborhood. That was a straight up hit. Nothing taken. Two guys with a mask

chicagodog wrote: ↑Sat Jul 13, 2024 8:50 pm

PolackTony wrote: ↑Wed Jul 10, 2024 12:23 pm

Ivan wrote: ↑Wed Jul 10, 2024 11:16 am

PolackTony wrote: ↑Wed Jul 10, 2024 10:26 am Baltimore Jail, in a TV show, is not the same as the IL prison system, which, as Patrick said, is run by Folks and People. Old heads, unless disgraced or run out, are still with their organization. Guys like Panozzo and Koroluk are absolutely going to be with the Folks in the joint. These dynamics often aren’t well-grasped by people who only know the mafia side of things. I remember seeing stuff online a few years back like “wow, these guys were kidnapping Latin Kings, they’re gonna be in a lot of trouble in prison!”, when we’re talking about dudes who came up pulling raids and ambush attacks, etc., on Kings, who have been their primary enemies for decades. These guys were formed in a world of urban gang warfare and prison gang politics.

Imagine what the younger cohorts of C-Notes think of guys like Panozzo and Koroluk, not to mention Albie Vena. These dudes are far from nobodies when they hit the IL system. Middle aged, and even older, guys run the system in the prison. White doesn’t matter, it’s not like CA or Texas. C-Notes are “Latin Folks”, and in the joint that is what matters.

This is really fascinating stuff that I don't know much about, thanks for spelling it out like that.

So how would Cosa Nostra affiliation factor into all of this in an Illinois jail? Would it be relevant at all?

I don’t have any insight myself as to what LCN itself might mean in the IL system today. I’d suspect that they are “respected” in the way that the mob is “respected” by street guys in other states. I never did time myself but obviously knew a lot of guys who did serious time in Joliet, Stateville, etc back in the day and just recall general comments about mob guys being respected and having clout but no specifics. Any guys back in Chicago that I used to know who have done any time recently are not people that I would like to rekindle contact with, for obvious reasons, but if I talk to anyone who might be in the position to have some insight I will definitely post about it.

I’ve referenced the Lucchese associate from Brooklyn who was working with Chicago guys in the late 90s/2000s before. FWIW, he had a very high opinion of Chicago gang leaders (“those guys are true gangsters”) and also said that in the Federal system there is a lot of mutual respect and contact between Chicago gangbangers and LCN affiliates.

One thing that makes this topic a bit difficult to parse is that in recent decades, whatever respect LCN may still have in the IL system is, I think, not easy to disentangle from their intimate connections to the street gang world. While Grand Ave has very close ties to the C-Notes, who are Folks, Cicero has the same sort of ties to the People via the Players. There have also been various ties between LCN affiliates over the years with Kings, as well as with major Folks organizations like the Maniac Latin Disciples and Spanish Cobras (both of which had significant connections to people in local politics and the latter of which was the organization that actually sponsored the C-Notes to join the Folks). I know that I’ve brought this up several times over the years, but anyone interested in these things at all needs to read “The In$and Chicago Way” by UIC criminologist John Hagedorn. The book discusses the politics of the Latin Folks both on the streets and inside the joint in the 90s, connections between the Grand Ave crew and the Latin Folks aka “Spanish Growth and Development”, and longer standing ties between the outfit and black street gangs like the VLs and BPSN. I can say that the accounts that Hagedorn received from his informants with the Latin Folks align with what I was told and and understood when I was on the streets in the 90s.

https://chicagoreader.com/arts-culture/ ... ino-gangs/

Just look at Caruso III. If he was any other Bridgeport kid he would have probably been killed in prison or at least would have gotten fucked with. Even in Sheridan he was protected. There’s too many instances of Outfit influence on politics. Sometimes I feel like a conspiracy theorist but there’s something going on.

PolackTony wrote: ↑Wed Jul 10, 2024 12:23 pm

Ivan wrote: ↑Wed Jul 10, 2024 11:16 am

PolackTony wrote: ↑Wed Jul 10, 2024 10:26 am Baltimore Jail, in a TV show, is not the same as the IL prison system, which, as Patrick said, is run by Folks and People. Old heads, unless disgraced or run out, are still with their organization. Guys like Panozzo and Koroluk are absolutely going to be with the Folks in the joint. These dynamics often aren’t well-grasped by people who only know the mafia side of things. I remember seeing stuff online a few years back like “wow, these guys were kidnapping Latin Kings, they’re gonna be in a lot of trouble in prison!”, when we’re talking about dudes who came up pulling raids and ambush attacks, etc., on Kings, who have been their primary enemies for decades. These guys were formed in a world of urban gang warfare and prison gang politics.

Imagine what the younger cohorts of C-Notes think of guys like Panozzo and Koroluk, not to mention Albie Vena. These dudes are far from nobodies when they hit the IL system. Middle aged, and even older, guys run the system in the prison. White doesn’t matter, it’s not like CA or Texas. C-Notes are “Latin Folks”, and in the joint that is what matters.

This is really fascinating stuff that I don't know much about, thanks for spelling it out like that.

So how would Cosa Nostra affiliation factor into all of this in an Illinois jail? Would it be relevant at all?

I don’t have any insight myself as to what LCN itself might mean in the IL system today. I’d suspect that they are “respected” in the way that the mob is “respected” by street guys in other states. I never did time myself but obviously knew a lot of guys who did serious time in Joliet, Stateville, etc back in the day and just recall general comments about mob guys being respected and having clout but no specifics. Any guys back in Chicago that I used to know who have done any time recently are not people that I would like to rekindle contact with, for obvious reasons, but if I talk to anyone who might be in the position to have some insight I will definitely post about it.

I’ve referenced the Lucchese associate from Brooklyn who was working with Chicago guys in the late 90s/2000s before. FWIW, he had a very high opinion of Chicago gang leaders (“those guys are true gangsters”) and also said that in the Federal system there is a lot of mutual respect and contact between Chicago gangbangers and LCN affiliates.

One thing that makes this topic a bit difficult to parse is that in recent decades, whatever respect LCN may still have in the IL system is, I think, not easy to disentangle from their intimate connections to the street gang world. While Grand Ave has very close ties to the C-Notes, who are Folks, Cicero has the same sort of ties to the People via the Players. There have also been various ties between LCN affiliates over the years with Kings, as well as with major Folks organizations like the Maniac Latin Disciples and Spanish Cobras (both of which had significant connections to people in local politics and the latter of which was the organization that actually sponsored the C-Notes to join the Folks). I know that I’ve brought this up several times over the years, but anyone interested in these things at all needs to read “The In$and Chicago Way” by UIC criminologist John Hagedorn. The book discusses the politics of the Latin Folks both on the streets and inside the joint in the 90s, connections between the Grand Ave crew and the Latin Folks aka “Spanish Growth and Development”, and longer standing ties between the outfit and black street gangs like the VLs and BPSN. I can say that the accounts that Hagedorn received from his informants with the Latin Folks align with what I was told and and understood when I was on the streets in the 90s.

https://chicagoreader.com/arts-culture/ ... ino-gangs/

PolackTony wrote: ↑Wed Jul 10, 2024 11:45 pm Oh, I don’t doubt that for a second. The Taylor Dukes were a tough club and I have heard before that a number of their members got recruited by the outfit. The Dukes were alleged to have been inspired by the old 42 Gang and to have used an initiation ceremony derived from the mafia, involving the burning of paper and swearing of an oath. They were gone as an active street gang by the late 60s, but they mentored the Jousters who were the only Taylor St gang that spread to other neighborhoods of the city by recruiting non-Italians.