by CabriniGreen » Tue Feb 14, 2023 8:21 pm
B. wrote: ↑Tue Feb 14, 2023 7:07 pm
Newyorkempire wrote: ↑Tue Feb 14, 2023 6:31 pm
B. wrote: ↑Tue Feb 14, 2023 12:43 pm
LoPresti was using drugs and told Sciascia "You're my captain, not my friend." He was apparently seen as a disrespectful liability so Sciascia ordered his murder.
The Rizzutos may have helped facilitate the LoPresti killing in Canada on behalf of Sciascia which might explain Lorenzo's misgivings toward them. Similarly an Arcuri was the suspect in Vito Rizzuto's murder in New York City in the 1930s so they appear to have a long history of tension with their paesans hence the Arcuris being Montagna's main supporters against the Rizzuto-Renda clan.
Rosario Arcuri who was believed to have killed Vito Rizzuto was also a close friend / possible relative of Bonanno member Manny Guaragna's father, Manny being in the same decina as Sal Montagna. So these relationships are very interesting even if some of the connections are incidental generations later.
B., where does the info on Sciascia ordering his murder come from?
Massino ordered it at Sciascia's request. Massino's testimony:
Q Staying in the time frame where you were incarcerated in
17 the late 1980s to the early 1990s, did you discuss an
18 individual named Joseph LoPresti and Sal Vitale?
19 A Yes, I did.
20 Q What did you discuss with Mr. Vitale?
21 A George from Canada was his best friend, and he says that
22 he's always stoned, he snorting coke and he's very
23 disrespectful to him.
24 He said, you're not my friend, you're my captain.
25 Otherwise, I wouldn't talk to you. You want to -- he wanted
the okay to kill him.
2 I gave him the permission.
3 Q When you spoke to Sal Vitale, what was your position?
4 A I was the underboss then.
5 Q What was Sal Vitale's role?
6 A Captain.
7 Q Did you later learn that the murder was, in fact, carried
8 out?
9 A Yes, it was.
10 Q Were you personally there?
11 A No, I wasn't. I was incarcerated.
12 Q Were you ever prosecuted for the murder of Joseph
13 LoPresti?
14 A No, I wasn't.
15 Q But you told the government about it as part of your
16 prosecution?
17 A Yes, I did.
Note that Vitale once claimed he "felt" Sciascia had LoPresti killed without permission then sought permission after the fact but in one of Renaud's books (I believe) there is info he quotes from Vitale where he says Massino ordered it for the same reasons Massino testified, that LoPresti was using drugs and disrespected Sciascia.
Vitale however has memory issues and is bad with dates. For example when he was asked about LoPresti at the 2011 Basciano trial he couldn't even remember who LoPresti was and couldn't comment on the murder. I suspect his one-time statement that LoPresti was killed in Canada in an unsanctioned hit ordered by Sciascia was him confusing it with the Cotroni murder. Massino not only clarifies that the LoPresti murder was sanctioned but admitted to approving it even though he was never charged with it himself.
Vitale's accounts are similarly inconsistent about whether Nicolo Rizzuto became official capodecina. In the more well-known account he says Vito refused the promotion and suggested his father instead but Vitale left without anyone holding the official title and Vito remained an acting captain. In another account he says Vito Rizzuto was already acting captain, refused the official title, and Nicolo was ultimately made official capodecina.
Ok... here's the thing though. Doesn't all this sound very similar to Sciascia's complaints about Graziano? Why did they take his word at face value on LoPresti and not Graziano? WAS LoPresti really on drugs? Was Graziano?Or was he an just an emerging rival of Sciascia? And he found a convenient excuse to kill him? The guy had a lot on Mafia Row, at some point he seemed to be in the inner circle...
Was this a devious Sciascia tactic, brand a guy a druggie as a prelude to ask for a contract? Did Massino catch on to this? He didn't trust the Sicilians anyway, and especially Sciascia, it seems, after he was acting like he was running a parallel hierarchy/faction when he pulled the Louis HaHa / " Use Baldo" thing.
I always felt it took 3 guys to fully replace Galante. One in Canada, ( Nick) one in NY, ( Sciascia) and a designated liason/ messenger, LoPresti. Who was Montagnas LoPresti to NY? Was it that Renda kid?
Also..... I evaluate a mobsters strength one of several ways. Does he have a loyal crew? Is he in control of a lucrative operation? This can anything from a commodity, a service, infiltration of business and public works, but it has to be lucrative. Charisma is harder to quantify, but surveillance and observation can give hints to who's in a guys network, and the type of respect deference he recieves can be informative.
( anyone who disagrees on the lucrative racket thing should read Franzeses book, specifically the part about how his crew reacted when they thought someone was going to rat on him. They were addicted to the LIFESTYLE he was able to provide, that they were incapable of recreating without him. Like, ready to kill on a whim. )
[quote=B. post_id=252006 time=1676426867 user_id=127]
[quote=Newyorkempire post_id=252004 time=1676424715 user_id=7009]
[quote=B. post_id=251978 time=1676403819 user_id=127]
LoPresti was using drugs and told Sciascia "You're my captain, not my friend." He was apparently seen as a disrespectful liability so Sciascia ordered his murder.
The Rizzutos may have helped facilitate the LoPresti killing in Canada on behalf of Sciascia which might explain Lorenzo's misgivings toward them. Similarly an Arcuri was the suspect in Vito Rizzuto's murder in New York City in the 1930s so they appear to have a long history of tension with their paesans hence the Arcuris being Montagna's main supporters against the Rizzuto-Renda clan.
Rosario Arcuri who was believed to have killed Vito Rizzuto was also a close friend / possible relative of Bonanno member Manny Guaragna's father, Manny being in the same decina as Sal Montagna. So these relationships are very interesting even if some of the connections are incidental generations later.
[/quote]
B., where does the info on Sciascia ordering his murder come from?
[/quote]
Massino ordered it at Sciascia's request. Massino's testimony:
[i]Q Staying in the time frame where you were incarcerated in
17 the late 1980s to the early 1990s, did you discuss an
18 individual named Joseph LoPresti and Sal Vitale?
19 A Yes, I did.
20 Q What did you discuss with Mr. Vitale?
21 A George from Canada was his best friend, and he says that
22 he's always stoned, he snorting coke and he's very
23 disrespectful to him.
24 He said, you're not my friend, you're my captain.
25 Otherwise, I wouldn't talk to you. You want to -- he wanted
the okay to kill him.
2 I gave him the permission.
3 Q When you spoke to Sal Vitale, what was your position?
4 A I was the underboss then.
5 Q What was Sal Vitale's role?
6 A Captain.
7 Q Did you later learn that the murder was, in fact, carried
8 out?
9 A Yes, it was.
10 Q Were you personally there?
11 A No, I wasn't. I was incarcerated.
12 Q Were you ever prosecuted for the murder of Joseph
13 LoPresti?
14 A No, I wasn't.
15 Q But you told the government about it as part of your
16 prosecution?
17 A Yes, I did.[/i]
Note that Vitale once claimed he "felt" Sciascia had LoPresti killed without permission then sought permission after the fact but in one of Renaud's books (I believe) there is info he quotes from Vitale where he says Massino ordered it for the same reasons Massino testified, that LoPresti was using drugs and disrespected Sciascia.
Vitale however has memory issues and is bad with dates. For example when he was asked about LoPresti at the 2011 Basciano trial he couldn't even remember who LoPresti was and couldn't comment on the murder. I suspect his one-time statement that LoPresti was killed in Canada in an unsanctioned hit ordered by Sciascia was him confusing it with the Cotroni murder. Massino not only clarifies that the LoPresti murder was sanctioned but admitted to approving it even though he was never charged with it himself.
Vitale's accounts are similarly inconsistent about whether Nicolo Rizzuto became official capodecina. In the more well-known account he says Vito refused the promotion and suggested his father instead but Vitale left without anyone holding the official title and Vito remained an acting captain. In another account he says Vito Rizzuto was already acting captain, refused the official title, and Nicolo was ultimately made official capodecina.
[/quote]
Ok... here's the thing though. Doesn't all this sound very similar to Sciascia's complaints about Graziano? Why did they take his word at face value on LoPresti and not Graziano? WAS LoPresti really on drugs? Was Graziano?Or was he an just an emerging rival of Sciascia? And he found a convenient excuse to kill him? The guy had a lot on Mafia Row, at some point he seemed to be in the inner circle...
Was this a devious Sciascia tactic, brand a guy a druggie as a prelude to ask for a contract? Did Massino catch on to this? He didn't trust the Sicilians anyway, and especially Sciascia, it seems, after he was acting like he was running a parallel hierarchy/faction when he pulled the Louis HaHa / " Use Baldo" thing.
I always felt it took 3 guys to fully replace Galante. One in Canada, ( Nick) one in NY, ( Sciascia) and a designated liason/ messenger, LoPresti. Who was Montagnas LoPresti to NY? Was it that Renda kid?
Also..... I evaluate a mobsters strength one of several ways. Does he have a loyal crew? Is he in control of a lucrative operation? This can anything from a commodity, a service, infiltration of business and public works, but it has to be lucrative. Charisma is harder to quantify, but surveillance and observation can give hints to who's in a guys network, and the type of respect deference he recieves can be informative.
( anyone who disagrees on the lucrative racket thing should read Franzeses book, specifically the part about how his crew reacted when they thought someone was going to rat on him. They were addicted to the LIFESTYLE he was able to provide, that they were incapable of recreating without him. Like, ready to kill on a whim. )