by Nasabeak » Thu Feb 02, 2023 5:46 am
newera_212 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 30, 2023 10:09 pm
I've read Underboss twice and both times were ages ago (the first time was when it came out and I was barely a teenager) so I don't recall it exactly, but I remember Sammy talking it in the book and making it sound like he just "went along with it" and reluctantly decided to take Ruggerio's word for whatever reason. Ruggerio was allegedly the one who set everything off.
I would bet heavy that he was a lot more involved with it than he claimed in Underboss, and would also bet heavy that Gotti made a weighed and thorough decision about it, and he wasn't simply bamboozled by Sammy (and Angelo) or backed into a corner (who on earth would back him into a corner and force him to decide anything?)
DB seemed to be a holdover from another era that they had no use for. A Captain with no crew, who has a bunch of money and rackets all to himself. The administration just changed, Sammy almost certainly wanted the Union himself and probably convinced Gotti he could do it better and have it be even more profitable. Others almost certainly wanted his loan book and anything else that they could glom on to. A guy like DB who really wasn't that close with the new admin, was a Castellano era guy, had no crew and no big following, and a ton of money/rackets - seems like a logical "choice" for any new renegade admin to target a guy like that...
Don't want to get into a whole "breaking down the Gotti tapes" thing especially since someone who actually knew Gotti just did that, very well, on YouTube - but when Gotti is ranting about how they lied to him about DB and he went along with it anyway, it seems like he was saving face and placing blame elsewhere. Again, he doesn't seem like the type who'd be forced into anything by anyone - he was probably stewing about Sammy and the state of affairs and was thinking about how he may not have had problems like that and complaints from companies when DB was running that Union. It probably hit him that it wasn't a great decision and he was blaming others instead of saying "I fucked up on that one"
I believe that a lot of what you said is true
I would say also, what did DB really bring to the table that another guy - who, in theory, Gotti could trust more - couldn’t do just as well, if not better?
Not only that, but there’s also a certain grossness to it. I don’t mean the actual porn. I mean, DB was a guy who had a privileged and direct relationship with Castellano. Dealing with DB would always be a reminder of that, and it seems to me that Gotti had a deep disgust personally in many ways for the Castellano regime or way of doing ways. Also, it’s a constant reminder of your own betrayal of the rules by holding court with this guy same as Paul did.
Why hold onto someone that was an intimate part of that regime, when you could put your own guy in charge and potentially have them do it better?
In addition, how can you really trust someone like DB? Gotti might rationalize his killing Paul as “it was him or me.” And he might have a lot of validity in that idea. But DB? DB’s life wasn’t on the line. Paul made DB, literally and figuratively. Paul literally brought the guy over from the Jersey family, gave him a lot of way and a special access to the Boss. And then DB betrayed that…for what, exactly?
What would stop DB from partnering with someone else down the line to take Gotti out, if that person represented an update to DB’s interests from Gotti?
And further in addition, DB was set to soon be indicted on massive and wide ranging RICO charges. DB is a soft guy. He’s gonna do 100 years for John Gotti? Idk.
So, all things considered, if you’re John Gotti in 1986, why NOT kill DB and put Sammy and Angie - two guys you trust, love - over DB’s interests?
[quote=newera_212 post_id=250417 time=1675141750 user_id=5522]
I've read Underboss twice and both times were ages ago (the first time was when it came out and I was barely a teenager) so I don't recall it exactly, but I remember Sammy talking it in the book and making it sound like he just "went along with it" and reluctantly decided to take Ruggerio's word for whatever reason. Ruggerio was allegedly the one who set everything off.
I would bet heavy that he was a lot more involved with it than he claimed in Underboss, and would also bet heavy that Gotti made a weighed and thorough decision about it, and he wasn't simply bamboozled by Sammy (and Angelo) or backed into a corner (who on earth would back him into a corner and force him to decide anything?)
DB seemed to be a holdover from another era that they had no use for. A Captain with no crew, who has a bunch of money and rackets all to himself. The administration just changed, Sammy almost certainly wanted the Union himself and probably convinced Gotti he could do it better and have it be even more profitable. Others almost certainly wanted his loan book and anything else that they could glom on to. A guy like DB who really wasn't that close with the new admin, was a Castellano era guy, had no crew and no big following, and a ton of money/rackets - seems like a logical "choice" for any new renegade admin to target a guy like that...
Don't want to get into a whole "breaking down the Gotti tapes" thing especially since someone who actually knew Gotti just did that, very well, on YouTube - but when Gotti is ranting about how they lied to him about DB and he went along with it anyway, it seems like he was saving face and placing blame elsewhere. Again, he doesn't seem like the type who'd be forced into anything by anyone - he was probably stewing about Sammy and the state of affairs and was thinking about how he may not have had problems like that and complaints from companies when DB was running that Union. It probably hit him that it wasn't a great decision and he was blaming others instead of saying "I fucked up on that one"
[/quote]
I believe that a lot of what you said is true
I would say also, what did DB really bring to the table that another guy - who, in theory, Gotti could trust more - couldn’t do just as well, if not better?
Not only that, but there’s also a certain grossness to it. I don’t mean the actual porn. I mean, DB was a guy who had a privileged and direct relationship with Castellano. Dealing with DB would always be a reminder of that, and it seems to me that Gotti had a deep disgust personally in many ways for the Castellano regime or way of doing ways. Also, it’s a constant reminder of your own betrayal of the rules by holding court with this guy same as Paul did.
Why hold onto someone that was an intimate part of that regime, when you could put your own guy in charge and potentially have them do it better?
In addition, how can you really trust someone like DB? Gotti might rationalize his killing Paul as “it was him or me.” And he might have a lot of validity in that idea. But DB? DB’s life wasn’t on the line. Paul made DB, literally and figuratively. Paul literally brought the guy over from the Jersey family, gave him a lot of way and a special access to the Boss. And then DB betrayed that…for what, exactly?
What would stop DB from partnering with someone else down the line to take Gotti out, if that person represented an update to DB’s interests from Gotti?
And further in addition, DB was set to soon be indicted on massive and wide ranging RICO charges. DB is a soft guy. He’s gonna do 100 years for John Gotti? Idk.
So, all things considered, if you’re John Gotti in 1986, why NOT kill DB and put Sammy and Angie - two guys you trust, love - over DB’s interests?