THE BLACK HAND FORUM

by **CornerBoy** » Mon Jan 16, 2023 5:27 am

i can say w absolute certainty that kurins and obrien did NOT do the actual break-in.

Absolutely, unequivocally devoid of veracity. Complete varication- concerning the break-in.

I'm sure the rest is fairly accurate.

For an operation w the gravity and magnitude of this one, they wouldn't have those agents do the breach

For that type of operation, they would bring in a special ops?tacital team whatever youwant to call it) team from quantico.

by **Ivan** » Sat Dec 17, 2022 6:37 pm

MightyDR wrote: ↑Sat Dec 17, 2022 5:41 pm But looking over it recently I thought some of the dialogue was too snappy to all be real.

I dunno, these guys say weird, funny shit all the time. Didn't strike me as too far our in that respect.

MightyDR wrote: ↑Sat Dec 17, 2022 5:41 pm Plus Agent O'Brien, despite co-authoring the book, comes across like a dbag. As Joe Corrao says, "He likes looking like a douche bag"

Yeah that was my takeaway too. His trolling of the mobsters was funny but holy crap he just seemed like a monstrous asshole after a while.

The book was actually written by Lawrence Shames, based on the tapes and extensive interviews with the agents.

by **MightyDR** » Sat Dec 17, 2022 5:41 pm

I loved Boss and Bosses and still think it provides some great information and insight. Definitely worth reading. But looking over it recently I thought some of the dialogue was too snappy to all be real. Plus Agent O'Brien, despite co-authoring the book, comes across like a dbag. As Joe Corrao says, "He likes looking like a douche bag"

It would be great to read the Castellano transcripts. Plus the transcripts from the other bugs at that time - Palma Boys, Ducks' Jaguar and Casa Sorta.

by **CabriniGreen** » Sat Dec 17, 2022 2:07 am

B. wrote: ↑Sat Dec 17, 2022 12:20 am
Ivan wrote: ↑Fri Dec 16, 2022 9:47 pm
Nasabeak wrote: ↑Fri Dec 16, 2022 11:56 am I'm gonna try (for transcripts), based on dates given in Boss of Bosses.
What do you think of that book? It was one of my favorites until I found out they made up the bugging thing.
Also some of that weird shit about Castellano's maid coming on to one of the agents. There's a part where they say Castellano got mad after she talked about how the agent's mustache would feel or something.

There's plenty of dirt on Castellano as it is but they went out of their way to smear him and it takes away from the book.

+1 That was one of my favorites until I read about the fabrications.. I always thought the Bilotti scene where he suprises the agent in a car was movie worthy....

by B. » Sat Dec 17, 2022 12:20 am

Ivan wrote: ↑Fri Dec 16, 2022 9:47 pm
Nasabeak wrote: ↑Fri Dec 16, 2022 11:56 am I'm gonna try (for transcripts), based on dates given in Boss of Bosses.
What do you think of that book? It was one of my favorites until I found out they made up the bugging thing.

Also some of that weird shit about Castellano's maid coming on to one of the agents. There's a part where they say Castellano got mad after she talked about how the agent's mustache would feel or something.

There's plenty of dirt on Castellano as it is but they went out of their way to smear him and it takes away from the book.

by **Ivan** » Fri Dec 16, 2022 9:47 pm

Nasabeak wrote: ↑Fri Dec 16, 2022 11:56 am I'm gonna try (for transcripts), based on dates given in Boss of Bosses.

What do you think of that book? It was one of my favorites until I found out they made up the bugging thing.

by **Little_Al1991** » Fri Dec 16, 2022 12:54 pm

Nasabeak wrote: ↑Fri Dec 16, 2022 11:56 am
newera_212 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 15, 2022 9:39 pm I'd imagine for the literal TAPE tapes from the era you're talking about, it'd be such a pain in the ass for someone to digitize them. It essentially has to be captured in real time, so someone would have to play those tapes start to stop and front to back, capture the audio digitally, timecode it, most likely break it down into easily indexable/ID'able chunks, etc. - it just doesn't seem worth it for anyone to do unless they absolutely had to for a defense team and a trial. Even the newer stuff that gets recorded digitally would probably be a pain for someone at the FBI to put together in a way that it'd be easily available for people like us ...as much as I'd love that.

You'd think they'd come up off of full transcripts easier though. Someone already has transcribed all that shit . I know some posters on here get their hands on transcription and it's been amazing (salute to those posters) . It'd be awesome if the turnaround time for FOIAs on transcripts was a lot faster - we'd have a lot more shit to talk about on this board for sure...
I'm gonna try (for transcripts), based on dates given in Boss of Bosses. I asked for Paul's file & Neil's. What else should I ask for re transcripts or files?

There is a 3 hour conversation which was recorded in the visting room at USP Terre Haute between Lucchese Acting Boss Little Joe DeFede and his boss, Vic Amuso.That is something worth asking for

by **Nasabeak** » Fri Dec 16, 2022 11:56 am

newera_212 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 15, 2022 9:39 pm I'd imagine for the literal TAPE tapes from the era you're talking about, it'd be such a pain in the ass for someone to digitize them. It essentially has to be captured in real time, so someone would have to play those tapes start to stop and front to back, capture the audio digitally, timecode it, most likely break it down into easily indexable/ID'able chunks, etc. - it just doesn't seem worth it for anyone to do unless they absolutely had to for a defense team and a trial. Even the newer stuff that gets recorded digitally would probably be a pain for someone at the FBI to put together in a way that it'd be easily available for people like us ...as much as I'd love that.

You'd think they'd come up off of full transcripts easier though. Someone already has transcribed all that shit . I know some posters on here get their hands on transcription and it's been amazing (salute to those posters) . It'd be awesome if the turnaround time for FOIAs on transcripts was a lot faster - we'd have a lot more shit to talk about on this board for sure...

I'm gonna try (for transcripts), based on dates given in Boss of Bosses. I asked for Paul's file & Neil's. What else should I ask for re transcripts or files?

by **newera_212** » Thu Dec 15, 2022 9:39 pm

I'd imagine for the literal TAPE tapes from the era you're talking about, it'd be such a pain in the ass for someone to digitize them. It essentially has to be captured in real time, so someone would have to play those tapes start to stop and front to back, capture the audio digitally, timecode it, most likely break it down into easily indexable/ID'able chunks, etc. - it just doesn't seem worth it for anyone to do unless they absolutely had to for a defense team and a trial. Even the newer stuff that gets recorded digitally would probably be a pain for someone at the FBI to put together in a way that it'd be easily available for people like us ...as much as I'd love that.

You'd think they'd come up off of full transcripts easier though. Someone already has transcribed all that shit . I know some posters on here get their hands on transcription and it's been amazing (salute to those posters) . It'd be awesome if the turnaround time for FOIAs on transcripts was a lot faster - we'd have a lot more shit to talk about on this board for sure...

by **Ivan** » Thu Dec 15, 2022 2:05 pm

Nasabeak wrote: ↑Wed Dec 14, 2022 11:47 pm Why do the Feds release so few tapes? You have quite a lot of Gotti, but fewer than 3 mins of Castellano outta supposedly 400 hours

That "Boss of Bosses" book has tons of wild shit from the Castellano tapes, though there's some doubt as to how credible it is (the agents completely fabricated what happened in the Castellano bugging for reasons that don't make a lot of sense).

By the way you have the best screen name ever. "Waterhead" also would have been good.

by **Little_Al1991** » Thu Dec 15, 2022 3:04 am

FOIA is probably the best way to get them
They have shown a lot of Gotti due to the things he said on tapes such as badmouthing Sammy and then ordering murders while being recorded.They have been released due to the many documentaries which have been made about Gotti

by **Nasabeak** » Wed Dec 14, 2022 11:47 pm

Why do the Feds release so few tapes? You have quite a lot of Gotti, but fewer than 3 mins of Castellano outta supposedly 400 hours

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