Confirmation of Chicago Consiglio 1969

Post a reply

Confirmation code
Enter the code exactly as it appears. All letters are case insensitive.

BBCode is OFF
Smilies are OFF

Topic review
   

Expand view Topic review: Confirmation of Chicago Consiglio 1969

Re: Confirmation of Chicago Consiglio 1969

by nizarsoccer » Sat Jan 07, 2023 7:56 pm

B. wrote: Sat Jan 07, 2023 5:00 pm Chicago would have been involved on some level in the conspiracy to kill Enea given the Enea-DiTrapani-LaGalbo faction was petitioning Chicago for support in usupring Alioto and helped mediate the aftermath.

Nizar -- Gentile used the Italian word "consiglio" to refer to it and Bompensiero used a dialect version to describe the Chicago consiglio. Most sources use the translated "council" or other localized terms but the wealth of evidence shows it to be the same body distinct from the administration.
Oh I got that (fascinating work) - my question was more inquiring where you found this document in the first since I looked through Mary and couldn't find it. A private collection or Bomp's file?

Re: Confirmation of Chicago Consiglio 1969

by PolackTony » Sat Jan 07, 2023 7:26 pm

B. wrote: Sat Jan 07, 2023 5:00 pm Chicago would have been involved on some level in the conspiracy to kill Enea given the Enea-DiTrapani-LaGalbo faction was petitioning Chicago for support in usupring Alioto and helped mediate the aftermath.

Nizar -- Gentile used the Italian word "consiglio" to refer to it and Bompensiero used a dialect version to describe the Chicago consiglio. Most sources use the translated "council" or other localized terms but the wealth of evidence shows it to be the same body distinct from the administration.
Yeah, the FBI transcribed it as “consignu” in the ‘69 file from Bomp, which to me is clearly the Sicilianu “consigghiu”.

Re: Confirmation of Chicago Consiglio 1969

by B. » Sat Jan 07, 2023 5:00 pm

Chicago would have been involved on some level in the conspiracy to kill Enea given the Enea-DiTrapani-LaGalbo faction was petitioning Chicago for support in usupring Alioto and helped mediate the aftermath.

Nizar -- Gentile used the Italian word "consiglio" to refer to it and Bompensiero used a dialect version to describe the Chicago consiglio. Most sources use the translated "council" or other localized terms but the wealth of evidence shows it to be the same body distinct from the administration.

Re: Confirmation of Chicago Consiglio 1969

by cavita » Sat Jan 07, 2023 12:21 pm

PolackTony wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 10:51 pm Another thing to note is that Maniaci stated that when Milwaukee clipped Jack Enea in 1954, it was done with “authority given by Chicago”. This would further suggest that Chicago functioned as a de facto “Commission” for the Families that it represented if it was sufficient to get Chicago’s approval to execute a member.

Also from Maniaci:

Image
Since I have it handy, here is the one FBI file I have mentioning Marinelli killed Enea but have not seen that anywhere else.

Re: Confirmation of Chicago Consiglio 1969

by nizarsoccer » Sat Jan 07, 2023 10:04 am

I was trying to find the original document's reference to the Consiglio on MF. If it's not from there, where is it from and is it publicly accessible?

Re: Confirmation of Chicago Consiglio 1969

by PolackTony » Fri Dec 09, 2022 10:51 pm

Another thing to note is that Maniaci stated that when Milwaukee clipped Jack Enea in 1954, it was done with “authority given by Chicago”. This would further suggest that Chicago functioned as a de facto “Commission” for the Families that it represented if it was sufficient to get Chicago’s approval to execute a member.

Also from Maniaci:

Image

Re: Confirmation of Chicago Consiglio 1969

by B. » Fri Dec 09, 2022 4:29 pm

There's also the meeting Bomp talked about where he went with Jack Dragna and Joe Ardizzone to Chicago where Al Capone mediated the LA conflict surrounding Ardizzone's violent conduct. Bomp thought it was in 1928 or 1929 but he said this is where Ardizzone's murder was approved and that it was subsequently carried out.

The year would have to be 1931 after Capone was confirmed as Chicago boss. The first attempt on Ardizzone was in March of that year but I don't know if that attempt was related to the LA conflict or after outside mediation. Obviously as Bomp indicates Ardizzone's murder a bit later definitely had national approval.

Bomp didn't say it was a Commission meeting, just mentioned the meeting being in Chicago and chaired by Capone. 1928 Cleveland attendee John Mirabella was there but I don't know where he was living at the time, though it could indicate other national representatives were there given Mirabella acted in that capacity earlier.

What's interesting is the Lucchese Family represented LA on the Commission and you'd think they would be involved in the LA dispute and they probably were but Bomp only mentions Chicago. Hard to piece together the exact timeline based on Bomp's account but it does show Chicago mediating on behalf of LA.

Re: Confirmation of Chicago Consiglio 1969

by B. » Fri Dec 09, 2022 2:40 pm

Joe Bonanno said one of the issues between Aiello and Masseria is that Aiello wanted to represent the western half of the US. If that's accurate, it's possible Aiello and his allies not only hated Masseria but also saw the idea of one national capo based on the East Coast as an inconvenient arrangement in terms of national representation. Chicago didn't magically get a Commission seat in 1931 and keep it while other Families came and went -- it was the major political base outside of New York much earlier.

Just like the Commission wasn't as revolutionary as people once assumed and evolved from highly formal Gran Consiglio / Assemblea Generale bodies, I wouldn't be surprised if there was an earlier form of representation for smaller Families. We do know those early meetings had a ton of representatives in attendance but there may have been powerful Families who represented smaller Families when needed. For example we can't be sure that Gran Consiglio members weren't assigned to specific Families as national mediators and it's a guess either way but we do know there were defacto relationships like this long before the Commission. Nicola Gentile served in this capacity for sure within his sub-network.

You also have to look at Nicolo Schiro who was never the capo dei capi but had significant influence in San Francisco, Los Angeles, New Orleans, Philly, Buffalo, New England, and Detroit, with men from his own network if not Family becoming bosses there while Schiro was in power. He was politically distinct from the capo D'Aquila too and at odds with him at various times.

The thing is, these relationships are meant to be representational. We have sources in the Midwest who say that even though Chicago was their Commission avugad they didn't abuse their power over smaller Families but rather helped them mediate disputes and represented their interests nationally when needed.

There was underhanded stuff but I think it was Maniaci who said the Midwestern Families had to willingly invite Chicago's direct influence like Balistrieri did. Chicago figures had opinions on the Rockford boss election for example but they didn't influence it and Rockford deliberately elected someone who wasn't linked to Chicago. Then you have the situation Calabrese talked about where Rockford and Chicago had a dispute over two Rockford associates who had been working with Chicago but rather than overpowering Rockford, which Chicago easily could have done, Carlisi acknowledged Rockford's claim and let the associates return to Rockford.

I'm sure the Chicago leadership discussed some of these things among themselves, maybe even as the consiglio or what Lonardo called the "Chicago Commission". That Giancana / Accardo tape is just a casual conversation not Giancana seeking formal counsel (though Accardo did sit on the consiglio) but when he complained about the Philly dispute he had to attend Accardo did give Giancana advice on how to approach his Commission role before launching into the tirade about Joe Bonanno's conduct in Arizona.

Re: Confirmation of Chicago Consiglio 1969

by Coloboy » Thu Dec 08, 2022 9:38 am

Interesting find here Tony. While there could be confusion regarding the national commission vs. the chicago ruling council here, it could also be argued that Chicago had some degree of control over the families outside of the east coast, including New Orleans. Perhaps they had some degree of authority in a matter like this without having to consult the national commission.

Re: Confirmation of Chicago Consiglio 1969

by davidf1989 » Tue Dec 06, 2022 7:11 pm

PolackTony wrote: Sat Nov 12, 2022 5:59 pm 1964 intel from Maniaci on Chicago ranks:

Image

It’s unsurprising that Maniaci would have had little organizational insight into Chicago apart from the crews who were close to Milwaukee and Rockford at the time. Funny that he saw DeMonte as a capodecina but wasn’t sure about Prio, but we know that DeMonte was in close contact with the Rockford guys so Maniaci may have gotten that impression that he was more important in formal terms than he actually was. Given that Battaglia and Alderisio were Balistrieri’s liaisons to Chicago, we have to at least take Maniaci’s account seriously and think about it. However, the investigative period covered by this report was December 1963 to May 1964, and Frank Ferraro didn’t die until August 1964, so Maniaci’s claim that Battaglia was UB doesn’t line up. One wonders if he had been told this by Balistrieri, or if it was just his personal assumption as to Batttaglia’s status (which, similar to DeMonte, could’ve also been inflated by Battaglia’s importance to Milwaukee).

Interestingly, Maniaci thought that both Alderisio and Caifano were captains at this time. Again, it makes a big difference whether Maniaci knew this for a fact or if it was just his impression. Was Maniaci introduced to them as capidecina, or told of their status by Balistrieri or a Chicago member, or was he just inferring it based on his perception of their stature? In both 1968 and 1969, Bomp reported to the FBI that “to his knowledge” Alderisio was a soldier, and then additionally reported in ‘69 that Alderisio had stated that “in the past” he had been direct with Giancana along with Caifano. Presumably, that arrangement changed at the very latest sometime after Giancana fled the country, but we don’t know the exact time period that “in the past” denoted. In ‘69, Bomp was responsible for formally introducing Alderisio and Frattiano as members, so one would think if Alderisio was a capo by that point Bomp would’ve known. But, it’s also possible that Alderisio had been bumped up to capo (official or acting) by then and hadn’t been yet reintroduced as such to Bomp by a third party (LaPorte would’ve been in the position to do so, we can assume, but maybe it just hadn’t happened up to that point; though I’d also think that LaPorte probably would’ve told Bomp if Alderisio had been bumped up anyway, but who knows).

Now, one possibility is that Maniaci could’ve been aware that both Alderisio and Caifano answered directly to Giancana and thus assumed that both men were capidecina. I’m reminded of Nick C’s testimony, where he didn’t know for a fact whether Eboli had been a capo or not, but thought that he might have been because he seemed to answer to no one but Aiuppa; again, that could be consistent with a guy being a captain but also consistent with him being a soldier direct with the boss.
Thanks for the interesting information and was Bomp involved with Laporte and Fratianno in a trucking operation in California? Also was Alderiso an associate of Tony Spilotro who did the M and M murders with him?

Re: Confirmation of Chicago Consiglio 1969

by PolackTony » Sun Dec 04, 2022 4:29 pm

Interesting reference to Giancana being on the Chicago "Commission" (1964), though there then seems to be some confusion between the Chicago "Commission" and the national Commission. This may reflect what we've seen from other sources -- that the Family Consiglie were seen as analogous to the Commission, but at a different level of organization/representation:

Image

Re: Confirmation of Chicago Consiglio 1969

by B. » Wed Nov 16, 2022 1:27 am

From May 1964. DiPiazza was talking to non-Italians and said he was in New Orleans when he was told to go to Miami where two people took him to Chicago to see the "Supreme Council". He left a list of the two guys' names with a friend in case he didn't come back.

DiPiazza most likely wouldn't have been made at this time but Bill Feather lists him and some internet lists have his son as a later member. He was a big gambler under Marcello.

Re: Confirmation of Chicago Consiglio 1969

by PolackTony » Wed Nov 16, 2022 12:43 am

B. wrote: Tue Nov 15, 2022 9:24 pm New Orleans hoodlum Sam DiPiazza was recorded saying he had to meet with the "Supreme Council" in Chicago in relation to a financial matter and the only one not there was the "big man". Seems odd he'd have access to the consiglio but he did have Marcello's backing so maybe that played a role. Or he was just referring to a general group of Chicago mafiosi as the "Supreme Council" but it's an interesting choice of words.

Image
Interesting find. What year was this?

Re: Confirmation of Chicago Consiglio 1969

by B. » Tue Nov 15, 2022 9:24 pm

New Orleans hoodlum Sam DiPiazza was recorded saying he had to meet with the "Supreme Council" in Chicago in relation to a financial matter and the only one not there was the "big man". Seems odd he'd have access to the consiglio but he did have Marcello's backing so maybe that played a role. Or he was just referring to a general group of Chicago mafiosi as the "Supreme Council" but it's an interesting choice of words.

Image

Re: Confirmation of Chicago Consiglio 1969

by PolackTony » Sat Nov 12, 2022 5:59 pm

1964 intel from Maniaci on Chicago ranks:

Image

It’s unsurprising that Maniaci would have had little organizational insight into Chicago apart from the crews who were close to Milwaukee and Rockford at the time. Funny that he saw DeMonte as a capodecina but wasn’t sure about Prio, but we know that DeMonte was in close contact with the Rockford guys so Maniaci may have gotten that impression that he was more important in formal terms than he actually was. Given that Battaglia and Alderisio were Balistrieri’s liaisons to Chicago, we have to at least take Maniaci’s account seriously and think about it. However, the investigative period covered by this report was December 1963 to May 1964, and Frank Ferraro didn’t die until August 1964, so Maniaci’s claim that Battaglia was UB doesn’t line up. One wonders if he had been told this by Balistrieri, or if it was just his personal assumption as to Batttaglia’s status (which, similar to DeMonte, could’ve also been inflated by Battaglia’s importance to Milwaukee).

Interestingly, Maniaci thought that both Alderisio and Caifano were captains at this time. Again, it makes a big difference whether Maniaci knew this for a fact or if it was just his impression. Was Maniaci introduced to them as capidecina, or told of their status by Balistrieri or a Chicago member, or was he just inferring it based on his perception of their stature? In both 1968 and 1969, Bomp reported to the FBI that “to his knowledge” Alderisio was a soldier, and then additionally reported in ‘69 that Alderisio had stated that “in the past” he had been direct with Giancana along with Caifano. Presumably, that arrangement changed at the very latest sometime after Giancana fled the country, but we don’t know the exact time period that “in the past” denoted. In ‘69, Bomp was responsible for formally introducing Alderisio and Frattiano as members, so one would think if Alderisio was a capo by that point Bomp would’ve known. But, it’s also possible that Alderisio had been bumped up to capo (official or acting) by then and hadn’t been yet reintroduced as such to Bomp by a third party (LaPorte would’ve been in the position to do so, we can assume, but maybe it just hadn’t happened up to that point; though I’d also think that LaPorte probably would’ve told Bomp if Alderisio had been bumped up anyway, but who knows).

Now, one possibility is that Maniaci could’ve been aware that both Alderisio and Caifano answered directly to Giancana and thus assumed that both men were capidecina. I’m reminded of Nick C’s testimony, where he didn’t know for a fact whether Eboli had been a capo or not, but thought that he might have been because he seemed to answer to no one but Aiuppa; again, that could be consistent with a guy being a captain but also consistent with him being a soldier direct with the boss.

Top