Chicago Capone war

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Re: Chicago Capone war

by Antiliar » Wed Nov 16, 2022 7:20 pm

Ivan wrote: Wed Nov 16, 2022 6:02 pm
Antiliar wrote: Wed Nov 16, 2022 5:08 pm
Ivan wrote: Wed Nov 16, 2022 2:19 pm Actually, though I can't vouch for its accuracy, the site I got that pic from is pretty interesting in terms of text/info, too.

"The clerical collar fit poorly."

http://chicagocrimescenes.blogspot.com/ ... nated.html
Yeah, he basically stole my article that was published the previous April.
Oh man I didn't know that. Sorry, had no idea.

Well if he plagiarized you I guess I can be secure in knowing the information I read in it is solid. :|

Where was the original article, in The Informer? I'm interested in D'Andrea and I'd rather refer people to the original article when discussing him than to a crappy ripoff.
Thanks, Ivan. It's from the April, 2009 issue of Informer Journal. A lot of posts in this forum by Tony, B and myself update and add to the article.

Re: Chicago Capone war

by Ivan » Wed Nov 16, 2022 6:02 pm

Antiliar wrote: Wed Nov 16, 2022 5:08 pm
Ivan wrote: Wed Nov 16, 2022 2:19 pm Actually, though I can't vouch for its accuracy, the site I got that pic from is pretty interesting in terms of text/info, too.

"The clerical collar fit poorly."

http://chicagocrimescenes.blogspot.com/ ... nated.html
Yeah, he basically stole my article that was published the previous April.
Oh man I didn't know that. Sorry, had no idea.

Well if he plagiarized you I guess I can be secure in knowing the information I read in it is solid. :|

Where was the original article, in The Informer? I'm interested in D'Andrea and I'd rather refer people to the original article when discussing him than to a crappy ripoff.

Re: Chicago Capone war

by Antiliar » Wed Nov 16, 2022 5:08 pm

Ivan wrote: Wed Nov 16, 2022 2:19 pm Actually, though I can't vouch for its accuracy, the site I got that pic from is pretty interesting in terms of text/info, too.

"The clerical collar fit poorly."

http://chicagocrimescenes.blogspot.com/ ... nated.html
Yeah, he basically stole my article that was published the previous April.

Re: Chicago Capone war

by Ivan » Wed Nov 16, 2022 2:19 pm

Actually, though I can't vouch for its accuracy, the site I got that pic from is pretty interesting in terms of text/info, too.

"The clerical collar fit poorly."

http://chicagocrimescenes.blogspot.com/ ... nated.html

Re: Chicago Capone war

by B. » Wed Nov 16, 2022 2:07 pm

Wouldn't be surprised if Merlo was the consigliere given his reputation/role as mediator. At least a member of the consiglio.

Re: Chicago Capone war

by PolackTony » Wed Nov 16, 2022 2:03 pm

Ivan wrote: Wed Nov 16, 2022 1:28 pm Speaking of the esteemed Mr. D'Andrea, here he is as a priest. Found this just now and had never seen it before. Looks like a stereotype of the "educated" guy he really was.
There were obviously two faces to the "Terrible" D'Andrea. Upper-class sophisticate, and brutal mafia boss. Gentile provides an interesting account of the differences between D'Andrea and Michele Merlo's leadership styles, given that D'Andrea and Merlo were longtime associates (possibility that Merlo was D'Andrea's sottocapo, I think). Gentile described D'Andrea as a "cruel and bloodthirsty" boss who ruled through fear and violence, hence Gentile having to elicit the support of the bosses of Milwaukee and Chicago Heights before he could approach D'Andrea and attempt to intercede on behalf of Gentile's friend "Paolinello" (who D'Andrea had put a contract on after murdering all of Paolinello's friends). In turn, Gentile (who stated that he was in Chicago when D'Andrea was murdered) described Merlo as an "enlightened" boss who sought to resolve conflicts peacefully and used his political power in Chicago as an instrument of effective rule and administration (my take is that Merlo was probably the only guy able to keep a lid on the Chicago cauldron and that when he died shit immediately hit the fan and basically stayed that way until 1930). Gentile, however, still notes that Merlo's wise rule was underwritten by blood, as he had secured his place as boss by revenging the unsanctioned murder of D'Andrea by the upstart Giuseppe LaSpisa. Gentile, ever the Machiavellian realist, further claimed that had LaSpisa not killed D'Andrea, Merlo probably would've eventually had D'Andrea killed anyway (he was using the Chicago examples to illustrate for his interloctor who mafia power politics were playing out later in Sicily); thus, LaSpisa actually provided Merlo a fortuitous opportunity, as Laspisa got the brutal D'Andrea out without Merlo having to get his hands dirty, leaving Merlo then in the position of being able to justifiably murder Laspisa and seize honor for himself in his claim for the boss position.

Re: Chicago Capone war

by Ivan » Wed Nov 16, 2022 1:28 pm

Speaking of the esteemed Mr. D'Andrea, here he is as a priest. Found this just now and had never seen it before. Looks like a stereotype of the "educated" guy he really was.

Re: Chicago Capone war

by B. » Wed Nov 16, 2022 12:59 pm

A problem with this subject is you have to understand so many different pieces of the puzzle to wrap your brain around it and misunderstanding even one piece can mean misinterpreting all of it. It's almost impossible to fully understand an individual Family like Chicago without understanding all of them and for that matter it's impossible to understand the early American mafia without understanding the Sicilian mafia.

It takes so much time, resources, and mental energy I completely understand why the average follower of this subject doesn't do it, but of course that doesn't stop people from getting weirdly emotional and investing their ego into whatever their current theory is. Someone needs to write "the Zen of Mafia Research".

Re: Chicago Capone war

by Ivan » Wed Nov 16, 2022 12:36 pm

There's tons of those mob history narratives that appeal to a modernist prejudice; i.e., there's always an outmoded way of doing things held on to by dinosaurs who are doomed to be replaced by exciting young people. (Weirdly, Joey Merlino never benefited from this the way, say, Luciano did and just got to be a "punk" or whatever.) I imagine they are products of the eras in which they were formulated and baby boomer 60s mentalities. (Which of course means that they are now horribly dated and "old" themselves.)

These "Alta Mafia" types are interesting. Those guys, and similar people in organized crime. For example, rumor has it that Philly made one of their lawyers recently (have seen this online many times but no idea if it's actually true). Also Fred Goetz, probably a machine-gunner in the St. Valentine's Day massacre, apparently managed to complete a bachelor's degree when he wasn't busy doing contract murders or raping little girls.

Re: Chicago Capone war

by PolackTony » Wed Nov 16, 2022 12:18 am

Ivan wrote: Tue Nov 15, 2022 11:26 pm
PolackTony wrote: Tue Nov 15, 2022 10:19 pm Regarding Aiello, his photos with the Manson Lamps definitely help to serve the idea that he was a nut. But he was far from a random nut. Gentile’s account is really important as we know that he was the sottocapo under Lombardo (he was also a business partner of Lombardo at that time, though they later seem to have had a falling out). He was the apparent head of an important paesani group in Chicago, the Bagheresi, who also had close ties to Milwaukee (decades later, in the 60s, Union official and Chicago member Little Joe Aiello, apparently a nephew or cousin, was still President of the Società San Giuseppe di Bagheria in Chicago) and was clearly a powerful and respected leader in the mafia, who was able to secure close ties and backing from the Castellammarese faction nationally. Because he lost, we just see him as the guy who Capone took out, but he presumably had a legitimate claim to the boss spot as the former underboss, and it seemed that he was able to get a peace settlement in his favor in 1929 that allowed him to become boss. The eruption of open hostilities in the Castellammarese War presumably led to a renewal of fighting between him and the Capone faction, but at least for a period he must’ve had some real base of support.
I had to look up "Manson lamps" on Urban Dictionary. :lol: Actually all those Chicago Sicilians look like Mediterranean versions of Dracula in their photos IMHO.

Yeah Aiello was a heavyweight it seems. But the old books make him and all the other Sicilians seem like weird "Old World" dinosaurs who couldn't keep up with the "modern" Capone or whatever. Aiello actually gets the worst of this. Schoenberg actually calls him "pest Joe Aiello" at one point, which is funny and sort of accurate but definitely underrates him.

Seriously those old books are basically like "and yeah so there was this one guy and he was a looney who thought he could take on Capone but Al just shot him 60 times lol but anyway never mind him..." in a couple paragraphs or a few sentences or so. There's not much else in those books on him. (Should throw in the disclaimer that Schoenberg did a fine job based on the information that was available at the time. And most of the other books are good in the same way, though I'm pretty convinced that Lawrence Bergreen was on some very interesting drugs when he wrote his Capone bio.)
Hahaha. They were vampires to the extent that they fed off the blood of others, though we can presume they had no problem with garlic.

Yeah, the idea that the Sicilians in Chicago were just old world backwards greaseballs is complete BS, which couldn’t be farther from the actual truth. They were already working closely with Mainlanders around 1900 at the latest. The mafia, it is clear to me, was already in Chicago by the 1870s-80s. By the 1890s the Sicilians already had an alderman (Stefano Malato from Tèrmini Imerese), who was very likely connected to the mafia as he was later an Assistant Cook County States Attorney forced to step down after a scandal where he was brutalizing witnesses to secure the acquittal of a Sicilian guy who murdered a CPD investigator. From very early on, the Sicilians in Chicago controlled major businesses (produce importing and wholesaling most prominently), pushed into politics and organized labor, and established major paesani institutions like the Unione Siciliana and the Trinacria Fratellanza, through which they exerted not just social power in the Italian community but also leverage over politics via the ability to get out the vote. How much more “modern” can you get than a guy like Tony D’Andrea, who was a high class “Alta mafia” type who was educated at the University of Palermo, became a priest, and then worked as language instructor and translator for Chicago’s upper crust at the Berlitz Institute, taking over unions and becoming the President of the Unione Siciliana and rubbing elbows with the political and business elite (Italian and non-Italian) of Chicago, while also the boss of the mafia? I mean, c’mon.

That the Chicago mafia was already moving into the business and political classes very early on shouldn’t be in the least surprising as the core of the early mafia was apparently formed by men from Tèrmini Imerese. Tèrmini was the hometown of the infamous Raffaele Palizzolo, symbol of the interpenetration of Palermo mafia with the highest levels of Sicilian society and politics. These guys were already “modern” before they got to America.

Re: Chicago Capone war

by PolackTony » Tue Nov 15, 2022 11:58 pm

Eline2015 wrote: Tue Nov 15, 2022 5:58 pm Thanks Tony. I still do not understand the moment with Henry Spingola. We know that he was a Calabrian and supposedly invited Ricca from NY to Chicago. Also, as far as is known, Riccaa lived and worked as a waiter in a cafe with his uncle in NY, who was also supposedly a Calabrian and was in conflict with the Camorra. That is, Ricca, who was associated with the honoured society in Campania, had relatives among the Calabrians and through their network got to Chicago, where he worked for the comorrist mafioso Esposito. Tony i also wanted to ask which Sam Aiello in this photo opposed the war with Capone.
Image
Rico “Henry” Spingola was born in Chicago to parents from Cosenza province, which produced many Chicago members over the years (Chicago, along with Kenosha, being the Cosentino capital of the US). His family was tightly plugged into the 19th Ward (Taylor St) political world, as his father Giuseppe Spingola was already an important guy in the 19th Ward in the 1890s and was one of the founders of the 19th Ward Italian Republican Club in 1900. Pretty easy assumption that they had a close connection to Joe Esposito, as Esposito was subsequently the 19th Ward Republican Committeeman. Important to keep in mind that the Napoletani and Calabresi in the US were all under the same Camorra system, so close connections between them are unsurprising (e.g, Capone coming up under Colosimo). By the 1920s, at the latest, we also know that they were increasingly becoming incorporated into the mafia system. We can see this on Taylor St, which had many Sicilians and Mainlanders living and working closely together for decades, with Joe Esposito being made into the mafia, presumably under D’Andrea, and Henry Spingola’s sister marrying Angelo Genna.

With respect to the claims about Spingola specifically bringing Ricca to Chicago, I honestly don’t know. I’ve heard the claim, but am not sure exactly where it came from, so I can’t say how reliable it is. As already noted, we can strongly assume that the Spingolas were closely connected to Esposito, so it’s at least plausible. Henry’s little brother, Joe Spingola, was a powerful union official who was said to owe his positions as head of LIUNA Local 1001 (the union for Cook County municipal workers) and President of the LIUNA District Council to his association with Ricca, demonstrating that Ricca was indeed close to the Spingolas, though all of these important Taylor St people were closely connected to each other.

With the photo, I can tell you that the heavyset guy on the right was the Salvatore Aiello busted in early 1928 in an apparent warroom with a bunch of alleged Aiello men (including Tony Calafiore and later Milwaukee member Joe Caminiti). I have presumed that was Joe Aiello’s brother Sam, who Maniaci told us had disagreed with his brother’s war with Capone and thus rejoined the Chicago Family after the conflict ended. I believe that he was the Sam Aiello who died in Chicago in 1953 and whose wife was Vincenza “Elizabeth” Mineo (who may have been a relative of Aiello ally and later Milwaukee member Michele Mineo, as her father was also named Michele). Their son, Sam Aiello Jr, married Bertha Teramani, sister of Ross Prio’s wife Marie Teramani. There was, however, another Salvatore Aiello in Chicago who seems to have been both their cousin and brother-in-law, as he married Joe Aiello’s sister Antonina “Nina” Aiello; he died in Chicago in 1958. I have no idea if this other Sam Aiello was involved in the mafia in any significant way.

Re: Chicago Capone war

by Ivan » Tue Nov 15, 2022 11:26 pm

PolackTony wrote: Tue Nov 15, 2022 10:19 pm Regarding Aiello, his photos with the Manson Lamps definitely help to serve the idea that he was a nut. But he was far from a random nut. Gentile’s account is really important as we know that he was the sottocapo under Lombardo (he was also a business partner of Lombardo at that time, though they later seem to have had a falling out). He was the apparent head of an important paesani group in Chicago, the Bagheresi, who also had close ties to Milwaukee (decades later, in the 60s, Union official and Chicago member Little Joe Aiello, apparently a nephew or cousin, was still President of the Società San Giuseppe di Bagheria in Chicago) and was clearly a powerful and respected leader in the mafia, who was able to secure close ties and backing from the Castellammarese faction nationally. Because he lost, we just see him as the guy who Capone took out, but he presumably had a legitimate claim to the boss spot as the former underboss, and it seemed that he was able to get a peace settlement in his favor in 1929 that allowed him to become boss. The eruption of open hostilities in the Castellammarese War presumably led to a renewal of fighting between him and the Capone faction, but at least for a period he must’ve had some real base of support.
I had to look up "Manson lamps" on Urban Dictionary. :lol: Actually all those Chicago Sicilians look like Mediterranean versions of Dracula in their photos IMHO.

Yeah Aiello was a heavyweight it seems. But the old books make him and all the other Sicilians seem like weird "Old World" dinosaurs who couldn't keep up with the "modern" Capone or whatever. Aiello actually gets the worst of this. Schoenberg actually calls him "pest Joe Aiello" at one point, which is funny and sort of accurate but definitely underrates him.

Seriously those old books are basically like "and yeah so there was this one guy and he was a looney who thought he could take on Capone but Al just shot him 60 times lol but anyway never mind him..." in a couple paragraphs or a few sentences or so. There's not much else in those books on him. (Should throw in the disclaimer that Schoenberg did a fine job based on the information that was available at the time. And most of the other books are good in the same way, though I'm pretty convinced that Lawrence Bergreen was on some very interesting drugs when he wrote his Capone bio.)

Re: Chicago Capone war

by PolackTony » Tue Nov 15, 2022 10:19 pm

Ivan wrote: Tue Nov 15, 2022 9:00 pm
PolackTony wrote: Tue Nov 15, 2022 6:47 pm
Ivan wrote: Tue Nov 15, 2022 5:50 pm
PolackTony wrote: Tue Nov 15, 2022 5:23 pm
Ivan wrote: Tue Nov 15, 2022 5:12 pm Thanks for typing that out, Tony.

Will there ever be a decent Capone book that incorporates the above? In light of all this, the ones that are out are pretty dated.
We here at the BHF are the book, man. The Chicago threads here contain tons of information and high quality discussion beyond any of the books out there when it comes to the Chicago stuff (across eras), but it’s just not synthesized into a single neat account in one place.
You old enough to remember when people said Capone was unrelated to the Mafia and was just an independent racketeer who happened to be Italian, and that his outfit gradually "evolved" to be recognized as a family but was still quite different in character from the rest?
Old enough? Bro, go to YouTube and Reddit and they’re still saying it all the time. Some of them just don’t know any better, but I’ve had people tell me, when I inform them that Gentile and Bonanno both knew Capone and said that he was made, reply “well they were either mistaken or they were lying about it”. Others will persist in claiming that none of the evidence matters because Capone was Napolitan’ and the mafia didn’t make non-Sicilians until after 1931. If you reply with examples like Frankie Yale and Vito Genovese, they still don’t care. Lol. For whatever reason, you have some guys out there for whom this Chicago mythology stuff seems to be really personal for them, like they identify with it or something. They don’t listen to reason, don’t care about evidence, and will just keep popping up like whack-a-moles.
Hahaha see I never read anything outside this forum or highly credible sources (e.g. Anastasia, Capeci, and, god bless 'em, the fucking FBI) so I miss out on the retardation. Thus I thought that way of thinking was on the way out. Honestly the only thing other forums are good for, at least as far as I'm concerned, is rare photos. They actually do deliver quite often when it comes to that. Of course they then say the dumbest shit possible about the rare photos they find, but hey that ain't the photos' fault

Anyway, one weird thing about those older books is that they always make Joe Aiello sound like some random nut. There seems to have been more to him than that.
Oh yeah, you can find some great photos and once in a while even some quality posts on those other forums. YouTube, for example, brings out legions of bottom feeders, but you also get random people that are from connected families and really knew people and have great stories. Reddit is mostly mouth breathers, but there was one great photo of Joey Lombardo in St Tropez that some random guy posted. Guy said he was on the trip as he was from the old neighborhood, and I think he was legit as that photo was a personal photo and had never appeared anywhere else that I saw. Guy also said that when they were in the airport in France some European dudes in suits showed up and treated Joey with great respect, and that Joey went off with them for several days on his own. Despite all of the phonies and trolls out there, there are of course people that really knew these guys and they have the internet like everyone else, so once in a while you get something cool.

Regarding Aiello, his photos with the Manson Lamps definitely help to serve the idea that he was a nut. But he was far from a random nut. Gentile’s account is really important as we know that he was the sottocapo under Lombardo (he was also a business partner of Lombardo at that time, though they later seem to have had a falling out). He was the apparent head of an important paesani group in Chicago, the Bagheresi, who also had close ties to Milwaukee (decades later, in the 60s, Union official and Chicago member Little Joe Aiello, apparently a nephew or cousin, was still President of the Società San Giuseppe di Bagheria in Chicago) and was clearly a powerful and respected leader in the mafia, who was able to secure close ties and backing from the Castellammarese faction nationally. Because he lost, we just see him as the guy who Capone took out, but he presumably had a legitimate claim to the boss spot as the former underboss, and it seemed that he was able to get a peace settlement in his favor in 1929 that allowed him to become boss. The eruption of open hostilities in the Castellammarese War presumably led to a renewal of fighting between him and the Capone faction, but at least for a period he must’ve had some real base of support.

Re: Chicago Capone war

by Ivan » Tue Nov 15, 2022 9:00 pm

PolackTony wrote: Tue Nov 15, 2022 6:47 pm
Ivan wrote: Tue Nov 15, 2022 5:50 pm
PolackTony wrote: Tue Nov 15, 2022 5:23 pm
Ivan wrote: Tue Nov 15, 2022 5:12 pm Thanks for typing that out, Tony.

Will there ever be a decent Capone book that incorporates the above? In light of all this, the ones that are out are pretty dated.
We here at the BHF are the book, man. The Chicago threads here contain tons of information and high quality discussion beyond any of the books out there when it comes to the Chicago stuff (across eras), but it’s just not synthesized into a single neat account in one place.
You old enough to remember when people said Capone was unrelated to the Mafia and was just an independent racketeer who happened to be Italian, and that his outfit gradually "evolved" to be recognized as a family but was still quite different in character from the rest?
Old enough? Bro, go to YouTube and Reddit and they’re still saying it all the time. Some of them just don’t know any better, but I’ve had people tell me, when I inform them that Gentile and Bonanno both knew Capone and said that he was made, reply “well they were either mistaken or they were lying about it”. Others will persist in claiming that none of the evidence matters because Capone was Napolitan’ and the mafia didn’t make non-Sicilians until after 1931. If you reply with examples like Frankie Yale and Vito Genovese, they still don’t care. Lol. For whatever reason, you have some guys out there for whom this Chicago mythology stuff seems to be really personal for them, like they identify with it or something. They don’t listen to reason, don’t care about evidence, and will just keep popping up like whack-a-moles.
Hahaha see I never read anything outside this forum or highly credible sources (e.g. Anastasia, Capeci, and, god bless 'em, the fucking FBI) so I miss out on the retardation. Thus I thought that way of thinking was on the way out. Honestly the only thing other forums are good for, at least as far as I'm concerned, is rare photos. They actually do deliver quite often when it comes to that. Of course they then say the dumbest shit possible about the rare photos they find, but hey that ain't the photos' fault

Anyway, one weird thing about those older books is that they always make Joe Aiello sound like some random nut. There seems to have been more to him than that.

Re: Chicago Capone war

by PolackTony » Tue Nov 15, 2022 6:47 pm

Ivan wrote: Tue Nov 15, 2022 5:50 pm
PolackTony wrote: Tue Nov 15, 2022 5:23 pm
Ivan wrote: Tue Nov 15, 2022 5:12 pm Thanks for typing that out, Tony.

Will there ever be a decent Capone book that incorporates the above? In light of all this, the ones that are out are pretty dated.
We here at the BHF are the book, man. The Chicago threads here contain tons of information and high quality discussion beyond any of the books out there when it comes to the Chicago stuff (across eras), but it’s just not synthesized into a single neat account in one place.
You old enough to remember when people said Capone was unrelated to the Mafia and was just an independent racketeer who happened to be Italian, and that his outfit gradually "evolved" to be recognized as a family but was still quite different in character from the rest?
Old enough? Bro, go to YouTube and Reddit and they’re still saying it all the time. Some of them just don’t know any better, but I’ve had people tell me, when I inform them that Gentile and Bonanno both knew Capone and said that he was made, reply “well they were either mistaken or they were lying about it”. Others will persist in claiming that none of the evidence matters because Capone was Napolitan’ and the mafia didn’t make non-Sicilians until after 1931. If you reply with examples like Frankie Yale and Vito Genovese, they still don’t care. Lol. For whatever reason, you have some guys out there for whom this Chicago mythology stuff seems to be really personal for them, like they identify with it or something. They don’t listen to reason, don’t care about evidence, and will just keep popping up like whack-a-moles.

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