THE BLACK HAND FORUM

by **PolackTony** » Fri Sep 20, 2024 10:34 am

pat_marcy wrote: ↑Fri Sep 20, 2024 5:48 am So when you say members this is just Italians yes? Cause over the years they’ve had people like gus Alex, humphries etc who are not Italian obviously but you’d say they were members of the outfit

“The outfit” is just a synonym for “Cosa Nostra”/mafia (used all over the country also, not at all unique or particular to Chicago). Alex, Humphreys, et al., were *not* members, they were valuable and highly respected associates, as every Family had. *Members* doesn’t mean “Italians” it means inducted members of the mafia. There were always Italian guys who were also associates and not made guys also (all members are Italian, or at least half-Italian in a couple of cases, but not all Italians are members).

by **Ivan** » Fri Sep 20, 2024 9:26 am

Wiseguy wrote: ↑Fri Sep 20, 2024 8:44 am That quote regarding DeLaurentis is suspect too being as the New York families never had 300 members each.

I guarantee you like 97% of mobsters do not nerd out over this stuff in accurate detail the way we do and believe all kinds of debunked myths etc.

There are probably bosses who don't know how precisely how many made guys are in their families and all their names.

by **Snakes** » Fri Sep 20, 2024 8:53 am

Wiseguy wrote: ↑Fri Sep 20, 2024 8:44 am That quote regarding DeLaurentis is suspect too being as the New York families never had 300 members each.

If you look at the figures from the FBI from 1984 to 1999, they only ranged from 41-51 members. Though to be fair, I tried to make a list a while back of members who were alive since 1999 and there were 58 names.

I estimated 50-60 was their "peak" max up to the 1990s indictments. It was a pretty significant decline after that.

by **Wiseguy** » Fri Sep 20, 2024 8:44 am

That quote regarding DeLaurentis is suspect too being as the New York families never had 300 members each.

If you look at the figures from the FBI from 1984 to 1999, they only ranged from 41-51 members. Though to be fair, I tried to make a list a while back of members who were alive since 1999 and there were 58 names.

by **Snakes** » Fri Sep 20, 2024 5:59 am

It's tough for me to imagine 30+ made members flying under the radar between the 46 listed by the FBI in 1985 and the 48 listed in 1993 (which also included Rockford members -- who were not part of Chicago). Even if we add the members we know were made at the time, we'd still only be in the 50s. The 1982 FBI chart which had members and "significant" associates only had 70. I think his expression is open to interpretation, though.

by **pat_marcy** » Fri Sep 20, 2024 5:48 am

So when you say members this is just Italians yes? Cause over the years they’ve had people like gus Alex, humphries etc who are not Italian obviously but you’d say they were members of the outfit

by **7digits** » Thu Sep 19, 2024 8:47 pm

He literally says members. I will post it

by B. » Thu Sep 19, 2024 7:09 pm

Given what we know of Chicago and Nick Calabrese's account, it's also unlikely a newly-made member like DeLaurentis knew the exact number of members and was simply communicating the point that Chicago was smaller than the NYC Families. DeLaurentis may have understood there were more than a few dozen but fewer than 100 and threw an estimate out there to make his basic point.

by **PolackTony** » Thu Sep 19, 2024 6:45 pm

Unless someone actually has the trial transcripts for this case, which are not on PACER, I don’t know that this can be read as indicating 75 *members* (context and verbatim language used means a lot when parsing evidence like this). The Tribune in 1990 reported that DeLaurentis claimed that there were “75-80 full-time thugs”, but what DeLaurentis actually said is not verbatim reproduced. Assuming that DeLaurentis was referring to members and important associates (Schweihs, Swiatek, Bamboulas, etc), then this would not be out of alignment with the estimated range of 50-60 members based on the 1985 list:

by B. » Thu Sep 19, 2024 6:23 pm

Never heard of that. Where can someone read it?

by **7digits** » Thu Sep 19, 2024 6:17 pm

He was telling that to BJ Johoda and saying how even though the NY Families had hundreds of members Chicago was better ran

by **7digits** » Thu Sep 19, 2024 6:16 pm

According to a wiretaps of Solly Delaurentis in 1989 they had roughly 75

by **Snakes** » Thu Sep 19, 2024 2:49 pm

pat_marcy wrote: ↑Thu Sep 19, 2024 2:21 pm If I want to ask any further questions what forum is the best to do it in? Or best forum to go through for its history and making ceremonies etc

For Chicago? Here and a couple other threads. Good luck with all the pages lol

by **pat_marcy** » Thu Sep 19, 2024 2:21 pm

If I want to ask any further questions what forum is the best to do it in? Or best forum to go through for its history and making ceremonies etc

by **pat_marcy** » Thu Sep 19, 2024 2:19 pm

Thanks for the information Tony. Really appreciate that mate.

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General Chicago Outfit Info Dumping Ground

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