THE BLACK HAND FORUM

by **antimafia** » Sun Oct 16, 2022 12:27 pm

^^^^
The FBI, via the RCMP, would have known about Frank Cotroni Sr.'s death within 24 hrs. to 48 hrs. of the fact (he died Tuesday, August 17, 2004). I wouldn't be surprised if the FBI knew all along about his health issues and the cancer that ultimately killed him. The RCMP conveyed to the FBI the identifications of all the interesting individuals who attended either the funeral home for the visitation (at the Loreto, owned by and associated with the Rizzutos and their relatives), the funeral Mass, and the cemetery service. For example, Nick Rizzuto Sr. paid his respects at the funeral home and the Mass. The FBI even issued a statement before the Saturday funeral about not sending anyone to Montreal to gather intel, relying instead on the RCMP for the surveillance.

Starting in October 2002, Frank Coppa, Sal Vitale, Frank Lino, Joseph D'Amico, and Joe Massino would have turned cooperators before Cotroni's death. I'm speculating that the FBI likely would have told Vitale and Massino about it, probably told Lino, and maybe told Coppa and D'Amico.

There are of course other likely scenarios and ways that New York and specifically Massino found out about Cotroni's passing. Gerlando Sciascia's nephew, Giuseppe Renda ("Joe"), could have told Montagna in person in Quebec about the death. Domenico Arcuri Sr. could have called New York. The New York Bonannos could have been paying more attention to Montreal as a result of the January 2004 indictment against numerous Family members, which included Vito Rizzuto. Jerry Capeci's October 2004 Gang Land column (columns?) about the NYC Bonanno contingent's travels to Montreal in the early 1990s first caught the eye of Montreal organized-crime reporter Paul Cherry, the Staten Island Advance, and the New York Daily News later that month -- the reporting was focused on Mets' pitcher John Franco and the contingent's travels -- but only in November of that year did Cherry, other Canadian reporters, and numerous American papers write about Alfonso Gagliano. Did Capeci write in either his Gang Land column or the New York Sun about Cotroni's death? I'm fairly certain the answer is no to the latter. Vito Rizzuto had a subscription to Gang Land before he was arrested in January 2004; wouldn't NYC guys have one too?

If chin is okay with him posting the intel recently posted about the number of new members that the Bonannos could or could not make at a certain point in the 2000s, including in Montreal, it might be helpful to the discussion. On the other hand, it might derail this thread.

by B. » Sat Oct 15, 2022 10:21 pm

A detail I'd like clarification on is how the Bonannos were notified of Frank Cotroni's death. The Bonanno Family wouldn't have been scouring Montreal newspapers on the off chance a member died looking for his obituary. Someone had to have passed word to New York given the obvious relevance it had to the organization.

- According to the Massino/Basciano conversation, unspecified Montreal figures requested that Vincent Vertucchio be placed on record with Sal Montagna circa 2004 or early 2005.

- During this period Cicale heard from Baldo Amato that Montagna requested a higher tribute amount from Montreal on behalf of the Bonanno admin.

- Basciano knew about Frank Cotroni's passing so that they could replace him, though he couldn't remember his name, while Massino knew who he was referring to.

Was Montagna notified about Cotroni's passing and let the Bonanno leaders know? Or did someone else in Montreal send word about Cotroni's death? It sounds like Massino was specifically told about it even though he was incarcerated.

by B. » Sat Oct 15, 2022 6:55 pm

So Zia Libertina Rizzuto was the first female capodecina of the Bonanno Family in Montreal. I kid, but that shows the defacto / circumstantial nature of a lot of the intel. Thanks for sharing.

CabriniGreen wrote: ↑Sat Oct 15, 2022 12:03 am I get you Anti.... you can't pick and choose info to fit a narrative...

Do you think a narrative is evident in this thread? I ask that not to be provocative or hostile, I'm genuinely curious if isolating Bonanno member perspectives on Montreal (which vary and do little to clarify some of the questions we have) comes across like it's serving a narrative.

by **antimafia** » Sat Oct 15, 2022 8:05 am

Police watched from a distance as Montagna led the discussion. Montagna stressed that it wasn’t his group behind the Desjardins murder bid. The real would-be assassins, according to Montagna, were the “family.” Montagna suggested that new Rizzuto leadership had now been established: Vito’s mother, Zia Libertina. As he described it, all power flowed from the octogenarian. If Montagna was telling the truth, this was a development to be feared, not laughed off. Zia Libertina was a Mafia don’s daughter, and she had recently lost both her husband and her eldest grandson to gunmen while her only son rotted in an American prison cell. It sounded absurd, that the acting boss of a New York Mafia family could be afraid of the wrath of a great-grandmother, but Mickey Mouse was clearly nervous.

Montagna described Desjardins as the only ally he could count on in Canada. Montagna’s men would be happy to meet him anywhere. Montagna nervously tapped his hand as he made his pitch. Bertolo thought he could see tears in Arcuri’s eyes.

— Business or Blood: Mafia Boss Vito Rizzuto's Last War by Peter Edwards, Antonio Nicaso

by **antimafia** » Sat Oct 15, 2022 7:40 am

^^^^
I think that the one co-author, André Cédilot, is arguing that Morielli replaced Lo Presti as a right-hand man to Vito Rizzuto in an operational sense. Lo Presti’s formal rank as acting captain was higher than Rizzuto’s formal rank of soldier, which was also the latter’s rank at the time of the huge indictment of the Bonannos in January 2014. Bear in mind that Raynald Desjardins has also been previously described as Rizzuto’s right-hand man. A month before Rizzuto’s return to Montreal in October 2012, a number of informants told police that Andrew Scoppa was set to become Rizzuto’s right-hand man, which would lead to Rizzuto putting Steve Ovadia in Scoppa’s previous spot. (Ovadia, we need to recall, was a Canadian Jew.)

Below is a graphic that accompanied a La Presse article Cédilot wrote in 1993, which would be a year after Lo Presti was murdered. I posted the graphic a couple of times in the older incarnation of this forum.

by **chin_gigante** » Sat Oct 15, 2022 6:25 am

OcSleeper wrote: ↑Sat Oct 15, 2022 5:08 am I believe the info came from Mafia Inc and I don't have my copy with me. So from what I remember is they just say Morielli replaced LoPresti was the liason to the Bonannos and talk about his drug trafficking activities.

You're right about Mafia Inc. Here's where Morielli is mentioned in the book:

While Vito Rizzuto was not indicted, he certainly felt the impact of Operation Compote. One of the fifty-seven accused was a man by the name of Valentino Morielli. He was charged, along with Jimmy Di Maulo, of attempting to import 2,500 kilograms of cocaine on board the Tromso. On November 21, 1996, at the request of the prosecution, Vito was called to testify at their trial. Rizzuto and Morielli were both aged fifty at the time. Rizzuto said in court that he had first met the accused and his family when he was around ten years old; they grew up together in the Villeray neighbourhood. “He’s a friend, but we don’t do business together,” he explained, adding that the last he had heard, Morielli was serving beer in a tavern, but that he didn’t know anything more. The police, however, knew that Morielli was Rizzuto’s right-hand man, having replaced Joe LoPresti, who had been the Montreal Mafia’s “ambassador” to the Bonanno family until his murder in 1992. Morielli had three prior convictions for theft and drug trafficking. He’d also had a brush with death during a near-disastrous smuggling attempt in 1985. He had been with a team of drug runners on board two small fishing vessels, Gaspésienne VI and Gaspésienne VII, on the way to pick up a shipment of hashish from Beirut, when they were caught in a squall some three hundred kilometres south of Newfoundland. Both boats sank, leaving Morielli and his accomplices to drift for several days in lifeboats. The episode obviously failed to quell his taste foradventure, as he would subsequently be brought up on more trafficking charges. The presumed head of the Montreal Mafia on the witness stand was a rare sight indeed. Prosecutor Claude Bélanger, not about to pass up such a golden opportunity, questioned Rizzuto as aggressively as he could but couldn’t come up with much. Bélanger sought to prove that Rizzuto had met with Morielli on multiple occasions while the latter planned the operation to transfer the 2,500-kilo cocaine shipment to the Tromso. The ferry refitted as a freighter was now lying on the ocean floor, but the proof of the smuggling plot—cash and cocaine—was safe in the covert currency exchange and the RCMP’s evidence room. Under intense questioning, Rizzuto finally admitted that Morielli, like Jimmy Di Maulo, was one of his favourite golfing partners. The baron of Antoine-Berthelet Avenue, it seemed, took his golf seriously and had played on so many courses in and around Montreal as well as on various Caribbean islands that he couldn’t remember their names. He said he played about a hundred times a year. “For the last seven years, am I to understand that you play around one hundred games—more than a hundred games a year?” Bélanger asked. “Yes,” Vito answered. If, as could logically be assumed, he had played several of those rounds in the company of Morielli, it seemed impossible that they never would have discussed the cocaine importing scheme. At any rate, Morielli was found guilty and sentenced to ten years in prison.

Looks therefore like the acting captains under Sciascia probably went:

LoPresti (murdered) -> Morielli (jailed) -> V Rizzuto

by **OcSleeper** » Sat Oct 15, 2022 5:08 am

CabriniGreen wrote: ↑Fri Oct 14, 2022 11:56 pm
Valentino Morielli was also said to have acted as the go-between between Montreal and NY after LoPresti was killed.
What was his purpose? Was he a New Yorker? Or a Canadian?

Did he pick up the contacts with the Gotti crew? Did he go on trial with them?

I believe the info came from Mafia Inc and I don't have my copy with me. So from what I remember is they just say Morielli replaced LoPresti was the liason to the Bonannos and talk about his drug trafficking activities.

by **CabriniGreen** » Sat Oct 15, 2022 12:03 am

antimafia wrote: ↑Fri Oct 14, 2022 7:10 am
chin_gigante wrote: ↑Fri Oct 14, 2022 4:48 am
CabriniGreen wrote: ↑Fri Oct 14, 2022 3:01 am So...as of 1981, Vito wasn't a made guy yet? Did he ever get inducted? This is pretty big....
I think it's just him denying that he was ever a member or associate, which is obviously a lie considering the multiple other member sources who have testified that he was.
Rhetorical questions: Do we posters want to merely gather all the “statements” we have from Bonanno members about Montreal but without interpreting the “statements”? Do we want individual posters to disqualify “statements” from Bonanno members they don’t deem reliable? Do we want “statements” only from Bonanno members who provide information under oath or on a wire? Do we want individual posters to disqualify “statements” provided to members of Canadian law-enforcement agencies? When two or more member sources provide “statements” that conflict with one another, do we posters assert which source is being truthful, based solely on our biases? Do we want to disqualify “statements” from member sources who failed polygraph tests, even tests that the member sources volunteered to take?

What do I think unites Vitale, Massino, Cicale, and Rizzuto as member sources? All shrewd. Sometimes you clearly see how lying is in their DNA.

And let’s not dismiss the fact that some of these member sources have spiteful reasons to later contradict another member source, despite the fact a couple of them originally got their stories straight when it came to murders of Canadian Bonanno members.

I get you Anti.... you can't pick and choose info to fit a narrative...

by **CabriniGreen** » Fri Oct 14, 2022 11:56 pm

OcSleeper wrote: ↑Fri Oct 14, 2022 8:13 pm
1980 - Vito Rizzuto and Joe LoPresti attend the Pippo Bono wedding with Sciascia and many Bonanno members.
Pre-1981? - Frank Lino, Bruno Indelicato, and Tommy Pitera go to Montreal.
1981 - Gerlando Sciascia is a capodecina who brings Montreal figures down for the three captains murder. Sciascia joins the ruling panel afterward.
Pre-1992 - Joe LoPresti is acting capodecina for Sciascia and liaison between NYC/Montreal.
1990s - Sciascia rejoins the ruling panel after a period not being part of it (likely due to his previous legal trouble).
Pre-1999 - Vito Rizzuto is acting capodecina for Sciascia.
Valentino Morielli was also said to have acted as the go-between between Montreal and NY after LoPresti was killed.

What was his purpose? Was he a New Yorker? Or a Canadian?

Did he pick up the contacts with the Gotti crew? Did he go on trial with them?

by B. » Fri Oct 14, 2022 8:27 pm

Thanks OC.

Another early 1980s interaction is what Joe Pistone said about his beef with Tony Mirra. If I remember right, Mirra accused "Brasco" of dealing drugs and brought someone from Montreal down to support his claim.

by **OcSleeper** » Fri Oct 14, 2022 8:13 pm

1980 - Vito Rizzuto and Joe LoPresti attend the Pippo Bono wedding with Sciascia and many Bonanno members.
Pre-1981? - Frank Lino, Bruno Indelicato, and Tommy Pitera go to Montreal.
1981 - Gerlando Sciascia is a capodecina who brings Montreal figures down for the three captains murder. Sciascia joins the ruling panel afterward.
Pre-1992 - Joe LoPresti is acting capodecina for Sciascia and liaison between NYC/Montreal.
1990s - Sciascia rejoins the ruling panel after a period not being part of it (likely due to his previous legal trouble).
Pre-1999 - Vito Rizzuto is acting capodecina for Sciascia.

Valentino Morielli was also said to have acted as the go-between between Montreal and NY after LoPresti was killed.

by B. » Fri Oct 14, 2022 7:06 pm

I no longer have the original testimony itself, but here is my summary of what Vitale said about Sciascia during the Asaro trial:

- Vitale was very fond of Gerlando Sciascia and says he would have made a good boss.

- Vitale says that he (Vitale) and Sciascia were "servicing" the family's captains leading up to Sciascia's murder. Vitale was of the opinion himself that Tony Graziano was on drugs every time they met him, as Graziano slurred his words and his eyes were glassy. Vitale reported this to Massino, who denied it and said Graziano was "sick" and on stomach medication. Vitale however continued to insist Graziano was "stoned" and that he should be demoted as captain but Massino resisted. Vitale says Sciascia was not part of these conversations with Massino. Note, but Michael DiLeonardo has also said he believed Graziano appeared to be on drugs during this time.

- Eventually Vitale says he gave up the Graziano beef and "smiled and went along with" Massino, but Sciascia met up with Massino later and continued to press the Graziano issue. When Anthony Spero went to prison, Vitale says Massino was going to put Graziano in as consigliere but Sciascia registered a beef about it and challenged Massino's decision, saying Graziano is a "junky". I know Vitale has previously said Sciascia raised an issue with Graziano, but this is the first time I have seen it specifically stated that Sciascia opposed Graziano taking the consigliere position.

- Vitale says he believes the above led to Sciascia's murder, but he admits he doesn't know for sure why Massino ordered the murder. He adds that there could have been an underlying reason for the murder and is just going by what he was told. He also says he doesn't believe some things that Massino told him. This definitely lends itself to Massino's reason for the Sciascia murder (retaliation for murdering Frank Cotroni's son), as Vitale says clearly he's not sure what the "underlying reason" for the Sciascia murder was.

- In addition to Vitale, captains Patty DeFilippo and Tony Urso met with Massino prior to the Sciascia murder and were included in the plot. Urso provided the weapon that was used in the murder.

- When asked if Massino staged the Sciascia murder as an unsanctioned drug-related murder due to fear of "backlash" from the Canadian Bonanno members, Vitale says he believes the murder was staged at least in part so that the FBI wouldn't be able to figure it out. When asked to clarify, he says it was staged both because of law enforcement and because Sciascia was "very powerful up there" in Canada and "had some really serious individuals." Vitale feels Massino sent all of the captains and many members to the funeral (which went against his usual funeral rules) as a showing to the FBI that the Bonannos didn't sanction the murder.

- Vitale doesn't know what kind of an earner Sciascia was, as he says he never received money from Sciascia.

Note that Joe Massino acknowledged the beef Sciascia made about Graziano's drug use and said it led to him (Massino) cautioning Graziano. However he says he wasn't angry with Sciascia about it because Sciascia was "just doing his job." He denied telling Richie Cantarella that the Graziano situation influenced the murder.

What's interesting is in the Asaro trial Vitale said he was the one who first pushed the Graziano issue with Massino, not Sciascia. Sciascia registered his own beef about it separately when Massino wanted Graziano to become consigliere.

Also I made a mistake earlier -- it was the Asaro trial where Vitale testified he couldn't remember who LoPresti was, while earlier I said it was during the Basciano trial.

by B. » Fri Oct 14, 2022 6:45 pm

I don't think there are any rules as to how people should/shouldn't respond to the info here haha, but there's obviously a difference between a non-cooperator like Vito Rizzuto making statements to authorities vs. full-on cooperating witnesses giving testimony under oath. Rizzuto's statements are worthy of inclusion here since he was a Bonanno member commenting on Montreal but his statements are akin to what a defense attorney would say.

--

Frank Lino's testimony indicates there was an attempt to strengthen the relationship with Montreal after Galante's murder. It doesn't seem to have been particularly weak in the immediate aftermath, though:

1980 - Vito Rizzuto and Joe LoPresti attend the Pippo Bono wedding with Sciascia and many Bonanno members.
Pre-1981? - Frank Lino, Bruno Indelicato, and Tommy Pitera go to Montreal.
1981 - Gerlando Sciascia is a capodecina who brings Montreal figures down for the three captains murder. Sciascia joins the ruling panel afterward.
Pre-1992 - Joe LoPresti is acting capodecina for Sciascia and liaison between NYC/Montreal.
1990s - Sciascia rejoins the ruling panel after a period not being part of it (likely due to his previous legal trouble).
Pre-1999 - Vito Rizzuto is acting capodecina for Sciascia.

There was also the early 1990s murder where the leadership wanted Sciascia to bring Montreal figures down but he said it couldn't be done and chose Baldo Amato to participate instead. Sciascia was chastised for violating protocol by recruiting a member from another decina but they ultimately allowed Amato to do the murder.

Frank Fiordilino doesn't know much about Montreal but did say he knew the Montreal members to visit NYC for social events involving the NYC Sicilian faction. Frank was active mainly in the 1990s so that is probably the period he was referring to. The 1990s seem to be the most sparse as far as info about known interactions/connections.

by **antimafia** » Fri Oct 14, 2022 7:43 am

Credit goes to SonnyBlackstein for the details below, which he provided on the previous incarnation of The Black Hand Forum, of Dominick Cicale’s interaction on January 9, 2015 with commenters who posed questions to Cicale on Ed Scarpo’s site:

DC: "Actually they separated when Vito came home and when Sal the iron work was killed.
So, yes I would have to say they are now the sixth family... WITH BALL....."

DC: "I would have to say they broke off"

Poster: "That was only 4 years ago, though. What about before? Some estimations say that Rizzuto's broke over 10-15 years ago."

DC: "How if Vito was still sending down money to the Bonanno family up until 2006.

https://www.cosanostranews.com/2015/01/ ... icale.html

by **antimafia** » Fri Oct 14, 2022 7:14 am

CabriniGreen wrote: ↑Fri Oct 14, 2022 5:12 am
chin_gigante wrote: ↑Fri Oct 14, 2022 4:48 am
CabriniGreen wrote: ↑Fri Oct 14, 2022 3:01 am So...as of 1981, Vito wasn't a made guy yet? Did he ever get inducted? This is pretty big....
I think it's just him denying that he was ever a member or associate, which is obviously a lie considering the multiple other member sources who have testified that he was.

Aah, ok. A statement for the courts and lawyers. Got it....

Agree with you both.

I think all of Rizzuto’s “statements” are actually quotes from the 1st ed. of Lamothe and Humphreys’s The Sixth Family.

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