THE BLACK HAND FORUM

Really looking forward to reading these files! Thank you Chin for all you contribute!

[quote=newera_212 post_id=239291 time=1663900046 user_id=5522]
I don't think Montagna was really a "Bronx guy" and just ended up with that crew. I think he's from Bushwick/Ridgewood per Frank Fiordillino who says they grew up together. Seccafico was living on Staten Island but was in a Bronx crew; he could be a Bronx guy I don't know anything about him. Donato seems to have been around Basciano a really long time , kinda strange he calls him Little Anthony but who knows. It's either Seccafico or Donato ... if it's Seccafico, Basciano must have been his rabbi - he was getting praised by VB then 3-4 years later he gets killed
[/quote]

Seccafico grew up in Brooklyn moved to SI as an adult.

[quote=Browniety86 post_id=240303 time=1664847209 user_id=6917]
I wonder how in the hell the Bonanno's kept it secret from other families Vitale was an ex corrections officer? A person would think other families would be leary of doing business with Vitale when he was AB if privy to that information...
[/quote]

It's not like he was a cop. Sure, wouldn't have looked good, but many more grevious rules are bent or broken than a guy who worked at a prison.

I wonder how in the hell the Bonanno's kept it secret from other families Vitale was an ex corrections officer? A person would think other families would be leary of doing business with Vitale when he was AB if privy to that information...

[quote=Browniety86 post_id=240296 time=1664844450 user_id=6917]
I'm sure Frank Coppa, Frankie Lino, Lou Tartaglione and others gave useful information but Sal Vitale is really the one who broke that family...
[/quote]

Sal was who really put the puzzle pieces together. The guy put in his fair share of work too. Frank Fiordillino Says sal was a "damn good solider" and really kept the family going until Joe got out in the early 90s. Also interesting how he had 4 sons and I don't think any or then ever got involved

I'm sure Frank Coppa, Frankie Lino, Lou Tartaglione and others gave useful information but Sal Vitale is really the one who broke that family...

its funny that all these guys who flip no longer really live in hiding and hold onto properties in NY and FL after flipping. Tartaglione has lived in Boca Raton since flipping as well as NY. Hes about 85 now and has moved a little further north up the coast in FL not far from Larry Mazza. I guess the feds let him keep all his money and property when he flipped. Now wonder they line up to flip. Its a good deal ! lol

[quote=chin_gigante post_id=240263 time=1664808819 user_id=5708]
[quote=Cheech post_id=240262 time=1664807253 user_id=71]
chin are you gonna post it in the fbi section? thanks!
[/quote]

There's something else in the doc I want to produce some notes on first (should probably take about a week) but once that's done I'll post the whole file in the section
[/quote]

youre the man, I appreciate your contributions very much

[quote=Cheech post_id=240262 time=1664807253 user_id=71]
chin are you gonna post it in the fbi section? thanks!
[/quote]

There's something else in the doc I want to produce some notes on first (should probably take about a week) but once that's done I'll post the whole file in the section

chin are you gonna post it in the fbi section? thanks!

[quote=SonnyBlackstein post_id=240172 time=1664693284 user_id=171]
Thanks chin.

They picked Tartaglione as a CI immediately.

1 mill of jewelry for 75k? How fucking stupid you have to be.

Retired guy suddenly moves from Florida back to NY when indictments are dropping left n right looking to offload a mil in jewelry for 75k, jeezus. Well done feds on that genius idea.
And then starts talking about hits. Fuck me.
[/quote]

Feds tryin to hook em up with a RICO real quick there

Thanks chin.

They picked Tartaglione as a CI immediately.

1 mill of jewelry for 75k? How fucking stupid you have to be.

Retired guy suddenly moves from Florida back to NY when indictments are dropping left n right looking to offload a mil in jewelry for 75k, jeezus. Well done feds on that genius idea.
And then starts talking about hits. Fuck me.

[quote=SonnyBlackstein post_id=239409 time=1663994195 user_id=171]
Did they ever ask how Tartaglione got those "302"'s?
[/quote]

VB: Hey, Louie, let me ask you a question. I’m sorry.

AU: Go ahead.

VB: Is it possible that the way you’re getting this information and they’re baiting you? You wanna know why I say…

CW: Well…

VB: Listen, the only reason I say that, because this, if this pertains to me, it’s not me, so it doesn’t make sense. So it, it almost appears that they’re giving you something, in other words, they think I had something to do with this. I had nothing, I don’t even know who the people are… except for those three people on that list. So if they’re giving it to you to give to me, evidently, they think I was involved with something, Lou.

CW: Listen to me, Vinnie, what you're saying could be all true.

VB: Right.

CW: It could be 100 percent true. That's why I said in the beginning, and I said to Anthony, you want me to stay away from the person. And I, I'll stay away from the person, to me it don't make a difference. But let me just...

VB: But that's not my call though.

CW: What? Well...

VB: That's not my call though. I mean...

CW: Well, I said, let me give you, let me give you the reason but you know something, I'll never say never. We seen a lot of crazy things happening.

VB: Right.

CW: Let me tell you what happens, I'm going back about a year and a half ago when I first come home. I, belonged to the Boca Raton Club.

VB: (UI) that fancy dancing club, fancy dancing club up there, I'm familiar with that club.

CW: Okay, I belong to that, I belong to that thing about 10, 12 years. When I joined...

VB: It's a beautiful joint.

CW: When I joined it was 15,000. Now it's like 60...to join the club.

AU: Wooow.

VB: You have to join every year?

CW: No, (laughs) are you sick? So now there's a girl that's a nanny there...right. I meet her, I meet her through a friend of mine that has a cabana next to her.

VB: Right.

AU: Can you get somebody to just, excuse me...go head, Lou, I'm sorry, go head.

Waitress: Want more coffee?

CW: Has a cabana. My friend has the cabana.

VB: Right.

CW: And we start talking back and forth and back and forth.

VB: Was this a long time ago, Louie, a while ago?

CW: This is a year and a half ago, I just come home. I was only home maybe about a month. I start talking to her, ba-bop-ba-bop-ba-bop, we became friendly. I take her out the next night. When we go out we hit it off nicely. Sh... she don't work for, she's not...

VB: I understand (UI).

CW: No, forget about it. It cost me money.

VB: (Laughs)

AU: This guy never (UI). (Laughs).

CW: But she'll come to Florida. Now she came to Florida, like, about ten times already. Just to see me. Let me just, let me give you the story.

VB: Just to (UI).

CW: About ten different times she come to Florida. When I come in I generally meet her.

VB: Right.

CW: She, she turns around and her, if it's true, because now you're getting, you know, you's get me to think. If it's true, she goes out with a, uh, a reporter from...

VB: Just be careful.

CW: A court reporter, listen to me, a court reporter, or something like that. Now don’t, don’t let me (UI), cause I never really questioned her, you know. And she, she, she turns around, she says, at that time, I’m going back, there’s some papers there I seen with the Bonanno Family, are you interested. I said no, I’m not really interested. She says okay. And then…

VB: What about on you? They have any papers on you, Louie?

CW: Nothing on me.

VB: Nothing on you?

CW: Nothing on me.

[…]

VB: Listen to me, I have nothing to do with. It don't even make sense. Both those paperworks that you gave me, with the motorcycle and everything, it don't make fucking sense. So now what you're giving me now is an old case. It almost, the way I feel, maybe I'm wrong, that they might be using you.

JC: Well, they're feeding him.

VB: They might be feeding you, Louie.

CW: Okay.

VB: You follow me?

CW: Yeah, I had said that to him in the beginning.

VB: You gotta watch, because (UI), listen to me, bro. Well, if there was a truth, if that was the truth, I'd say I have a problem. It don't make sense.

JC: Louie, do you remember what we said in the beginning, let's see what they give ya? This is, according to Vinnie, and some other, the other stuff you gave us is bullshit. The only thing that was true was that we hadda go in for fingerprints.

AU: Fingerprints.

CW: Well...

JC: And fucking Jerry Capeci even had it in his column. So I mean it's, it's bullshit.

VB: Don't make sense.

JC: Did you talk to him yet?

AU: No, I didn’t say nothing, I waited for you.

JC: All right.

AU: I waited for you.

JC: What we'd like you to do, stay in Florida until your probation is finished, After your probation is done, you can come back and get your guys back. We'll service the guys over here.

[quote=newera_212 post_id=239391 time=1663985988 user_id=5522]
If possible can you post the parts where Tartaglione tries to get them to buy hot jewelry after a supposedly awkward and tense conversation about there being an active rat, and after they basically told Tartaglione he was shelved? I think it was the meeting after the fake 302s
[/quote]

CW: Listen, I’m upset. I’m, I’m upset. I wanna ask you something, Vinnie. I got, I got jewelry, maybe about, really about a million dollars, comes out of Connecticut. Okay? What I would like, if I show you the pieces, the guy owes me 75,000. I want, I want just my 75,000. Whatever ya’s make you give to the family, give to, I don’t really care if you took the money and threw it away. There’s no way for me to expose it.

VB: It’s a million dollars in jewelry?

CW: Yeah.

AU: Wow.

VB: Wow. And you want 75,000 for it?

CW: No, no, no, no, I want 75,000, that’s the money that’s owed to me.

VB: But where’s the jewelry coming from, is it stolen?

CW: Coming out of, oh yeah.

VB: No, I don’t want nothing to do with it then. I don’t, if it’s hot I don’t want nothing to do with it.

CW: Okay.

VB: I’m beyond that, Louie, listen.

CW: Okay. No, that’s okay.

VB: I’m not going to get involved (UI) illegal conversation.

CW: I got it in the car if you’re interested.

VB: No, forget about it.

CW: Okay… okay.

VB: I’m not getting involved with anything stolen (UI), we’re not thugs no more.

CW: Okay.

VB: This is the 2004. You follow me?

CW: No problem.

VB: That, that happened (UI) years ago.

CW: No problem, Vinnie. Vinnie, no problem.

VB: I don’t be bothered with that bullshit.

CW: No problem.

VB: I ain’t doing nothing illegal, Louie. I ain’t doing nothing illegal.

CW: Okay.

VB: I mean I’m speaking for myself. Tony, you want –

CW: No, no, I don’t even wanna talk about it. I don’t even wanna talk…

AU: I ain’t even got 75,000.

VB: I’m not doing, I ain’t doing nothing illegal no more. (UI) 75,000 that sounds like a good deal. For a million dollars of jewelry you got in the car right now.

CW: No, I got diamonds and I got Krugerrands (UI). The guy’ll on --, he’ll only give it to me piece at a time. You know.

VB: 75,000?

CW: No, no, no, no. He wants to get his end. That’s what, in other words, I only want 75,000 the way you’s…

VB: Oh, I got ya, I got ya, I got ya. Nah, if it’s hot, why do I get involved. I’m not doing too many nice things, Louie, that I won’t even get involved.

CW: No, no, that’s okay. That’s okay.

VB: Thank you.

CW: That’s okay.

[quote=SonnyBlackstein post_id=239409 time=1663994195 user_id=171]
[quote=newera_212 post_id=239391 time=1663985988 user_id=5522]
If possible can you post the parts where Tartaglione tries to get them to buy hot jewelry after a supposedly awkward and tense conversation about there being an active rat, and after they basically told Tartaglione he was shelved? I think it was the meeting after the fake 302s
[/quote]

Did they ever ask how Tartaglione got those "302"'s?
[/quote]

I'm not sure, I'd hope/imagine so - there was only really a summary of that specific meeting with a few quotes in the Basciano book . I'd love to see the full transcripts. Sounded like most of these guys had their antennas up and were on point, they must have found it strange this guy pops up out of the blue from Florida...coming BACK to NY in the winter out of all the times...and wants to meet with the new Admin and all of a sudden has access to 302s. Probably said he had an in-law or a relative at the courts or something