Need a survey of the pre-1931 history

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Re: Need a survey of the pre-1931 history

by Ivan » Mon Sep 26, 2022 7:11 pm

Boatdrinks wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 10:46 am You rightly spot, a reference to 'boatdrinks' in the film 'Things to Do in Denver When You're Dead'.
However, it should be recalled, that in the film, the character played by Jack Warden, explained the significance of the references to boatdrinks.
After the hurly-burly of earlier years, players aspired to an easy life, perhaps cruising at sea on their boats. Perhaps a little fishing could be done. However, now, in their later years, nothing exemplified their new status of enjoying the rich fruits and rewards of their previous lives, than to merely indulge in boatdrinks whilst aboard. As this was the aspiration of those players, then wishing 'boatdrinks' to their fellows, was their way of stating their best wishes to them.
In the film, sadly, things did not work out quite as expected. However, those players did get one heavenly final scene.
I myself am in rude health, and like Mark Twain, say that reports of my death are greatly exaggerated. I am in the fortunate position, of being able to take things easy, and enjoy life. So it's boatdrinks for me, and may I wish boatdrinks to all of you!
That is one crazy movie haha. I like the part where the most dangerous hitman in the world everyone is scared to death of is this little nerd guy the movie introduced getting off at a train station.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tua6R1eWTiE

Re: Need a survey of the pre-1931 history

by Boatdrinks » Mon Sep 26, 2022 10:46 am

You rightly spot, a reference to 'boatdrinks' in the film 'Things to Do in Denver When You're Dead'.
However, it should be recalled, that in the film, the character played by Jack Warden, explained the significance of the references to boatdrinks.
After the hurly-burly of earlier years, players aspired to an easy life, perhaps cruising at sea on their boats. Perhaps a little fishing could be done. However, now, in their later years, nothing exemplified their new status of enjoying the rich fruits and rewards of their previous lives, than to merely indulge in boatdrinks whilst aboard. As this was the aspiration of those players, then wishing 'boatdrinks' to their fellows, was their way of stating their best wishes to them.
In the film, sadly, things did not work out quite as expected. However, those players did get one heavenly final scene.
I myself am in rude health, and like Mark Twain, say that reports of my death are greatly exaggerated. I am in the fortunate position, of being able to take things easy, and enjoy life. So it's boatdrinks for me, and may I wish boatdrinks to all of you!

Re: Need a survey of the pre-1931 history

by Ivan » Sun Sep 25, 2022 11:31 pm

Boatdrinks wrote: Sun Sep 25, 2022 4:21 pm 'First Family' by Mike Dash, is a biography of Joe Morello from his earliest days in Sicily. It covers his coming to New York City, his time down south, then his return to NYC. The history of the Mafia in NYC, really starts with Morello, though the book does mention events that took place before then. From about 1900-1910, Joe Morello was not just the Boss in NYC, but was also Boss of Bosses. Imprisoned, 1910-1920, he was an active player once more, 1920-1930. This book, sets out the history of the Mafia in NYC in general, as well as Morello in particular, from the earliest days, right through to the Castellammarese War.
I completely forgot about that book. Thanks for the reminder.

"Boatdrinks" as in what you drink in heaven after you get whacked by Mr. Shh?

Re: Need a survey of the pre-1931 history

by Boatdrinks » Sun Sep 25, 2022 4:21 pm

'First Family' by Mike Dash, is a biography of Joe Morello from his earliest days in Sicily. It covers his coming to New York City, his time down south, then his return to NYC. The history of the Mafia in NYC, really starts with Morello, though the book does mention events that took place before then. From about 1900-1910, Joe Morello was not just the Boss in NYC, but was also Boss of Bosses. Imprisoned, 1910-1920, he was an active player once more, 1920-1930. This book, sets out the history of the Mafia in NYC in general, as well as Morello in particular, from the earliest days, right through to the Castellammarese War.

Re: Need a survey of the pre-1931 history

by motorfab » Sun Sep 25, 2022 1:15 am

Speaking of Detroit early History, Vinnitta by Daniel Waugh is also a great read.

Good luck for your surgery Ivan !

Re: Need a survey of the pre-1931 history

by Antiliar » Sat Sep 24, 2022 9:18 pm

PolackTony wrote: Sat Sep 24, 2022 6:19 pm
Antiliar wrote: Sat Sep 24, 2022 3:52 pm Tom Hunt cowrote a book on Joseph Macheca, which goes into early New Orleans. He also cowrote a book on early Buffalo.

In the books section in this forum I compiled a list of books for recommended reading for Chicago and New York, which includes the early stuff.

Sam Carlino put out a good book on early Pueblo, Colorado. For Boston, I wrote a lengthy article in Informer Journal on Gaspare Messina, the boss Nick Gentile wrote about: https://www.magcloud.com/browse/issue/273306. A recent issue of Informer deals with early California: https://www.magcloud.com/browse/issue/2055798

William Ouseley wrote the first history of the early Kansas City mob, "Open City." The KC Public Library also has a great website that includes free downloads of early KC Mafia material: https://kchistory.org/blog/new-collecti ... rime-files

Scott Deitche has books out on early Tampa and New Jersey: http://www.scottdeitche.com/books.html

Scott Burnstein wrote "Motor City Mafia" about the early Detroit mob. Daniel Waugh has written about early St. Louis and Detroit.
We should add Gavin Schmitt's book and website on the Milwaukee outfit:
https://milwaukeemafia.com/
Definitely

Re: Need a survey of the pre-1931 history

by PolackTony » Sat Sep 24, 2022 6:19 pm

Antiliar wrote: Sat Sep 24, 2022 3:52 pm Tom Hunt cowrote a book on Joseph Macheca, which goes into early New Orleans. He also cowrote a book on early Buffalo.

In the books section in this forum I compiled a list of books for recommended reading for Chicago and New York, which includes the early stuff.

Sam Carlino put out a good book on early Pueblo, Colorado. For Boston, I wrote a lengthy article in Informer Journal on Gaspare Messina, the boss Nick Gentile wrote about: https://www.magcloud.com/browse/issue/273306. A recent issue of Informer deals with early California: https://www.magcloud.com/browse/issue/2055798

William Ouseley wrote the first history of the early Kansas City mob, "Open City." The KC Public Library also has a great website that includes free downloads of early KC Mafia material: https://kchistory.org/blog/new-collecti ... rime-files

Scott Deitche has books out on early Tampa and New Jersey: http://www.scottdeitche.com/books.html

Scott Burnstein wrote "Motor City Mafia" about the early Detroit mob. Daniel Waugh has written about early St. Louis and Detroit.
We should add Gavin Schmitt's book and website on the Milwaukee outfit:
https://milwaukeemafia.com/

Re: Need a survey of the pre-1931 history

by Chaps » Sat Sep 24, 2022 4:52 pm

Take care Ivan. I hope the surgery goes well and with little discomfort. On your question I have little more to add as everyone seems to have it covered. I too strongly encourage you to read the Informer article.

Re: Need a survey of the pre-1931 history

by Ivan » Sat Sep 24, 2022 4:11 pm

Thanks guys.

I read Morello's books a long time ago. I'm glad she put forth the effort, but holy crap her prose is borderline unreadable.

Looking over the Informer issue now, browsing the part about Guiseppe Esposito.

Re: Need a survey of the pre-1931 history

by Antiliar » Sat Sep 24, 2022 3:52 pm

Tom Hunt cowrote a book on Joseph Macheca, which goes into early New Orleans. He also cowrote a book on early Buffalo.

In the books section in this forum I compiled a list of books for recommended reading for Chicago and New York, which includes the early stuff.

Sam Carlino put out a good book on early Pueblo, Colorado. For Boston, I wrote a lengthy article in Informer Journal on Gaspare Messina, the boss Nick Gentile wrote about: https://www.magcloud.com/browse/issue/273306. A recent issue of Informer deals with early California: https://www.magcloud.com/browse/issue/2055798

William Ouseley wrote the first history of the early Kansas City mob, "Open City." The KC Public Library also has a great website that includes free downloads of early KC Mafia material: https://kchistory.org/blog/new-collecti ... rime-files

Scott Deitche has books out on early Tampa and New Jersey: http://www.scottdeitche.com/books.html

Scott Burnstein wrote "Motor City Mafia" about the early Detroit mob. Daniel Waugh has written about early St. Louis and Detroit.

Re: Need a survey of the pre-1931 history

by B. » Sat Sep 24, 2022 1:33 pm

That's good you've already read Dave's book. The May 2014 Informer expands on some of the same ideas and updates it.

Celeste Morello's books on early Philly are great and she made them available for free online in recent years: https://digital.library.villanova.edu/C ... udl:428061

I credit her with opening my mind to the early mafia and helping me understand the Sicilian roots, Americanization, etc. The first book or two is a little dry but great research -- I think you'd be into the third book since it starts to connect more to the period we're all more familiar with.

Third Morello book: https://digital.library.villanova.edu/I ... 494%2C4031

Re: Need a survey of the pre-1931 history

by Ivan » Sat Sep 24, 2022 1:16 pm

B. wrote: Sat Sep 24, 2022 12:17 pm Yeah, the Gentile one too goes perfect w/ the other one.

Also Ivan... stay away from the tables until you're recovered man haha.
Haha thanks. I actually haven't played in a long time because I had this endless losing streak (even with card counting) and I just got bored with it.

I read the Critchley book a million years ago but remember little about it. Also I try to look up ancient history stuff in the archives here but either the search function sucks or I'm not using it properly. Links to relevant threads might be helpful if anyone knows of any.

Polack Tony: Yes I did say "American" in the broad sense rather than just "New York" for exactly the reason you're assuming. Starts in New Orleans in the 1850s, right?

The REALLY ancient shit (like, before 1890) is especially interesting to me.

Re: Need a survey of the pre-1931 history

by The Greek » Sat Sep 24, 2022 12:36 pm

B. wrote: Sat Sep 24, 2022 11:17 am CC, Antiliar, and Lennert on here wrote what I consider the New Testament of NYC mafia history: http://informer-journal.blogspot.com/20 ... ormer.html

It's a game-changer from people who truly "get it" and provides the best understanding currently available.
Agreed. This issue is incredible.

Re: Need a survey of the pre-1931 history

by B. » Sat Sep 24, 2022 12:17 pm

Yeah, the Gentile one too goes perfect w/ the other one.

Also Ivan... stay away from the tables until you're recovered man haha.

Re: Need a survey of the pre-1931 history

by PolackTony » Sat Sep 24, 2022 11:58 am

Should also add the October 2020 issue of Informer, which focuses on Nicola Gentile. Gentile’s accounts (he gave accounts to both US Federal investigators and a memoir authored by Italian journalist Felice Chilanti) are the best firsthand oral history of the Us mafia spanning the period before and after the Castellemmarese War.

http://informer-journal.blogspot.com/20 ... y.html?m=1

Best of luck with your surgery.

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