THE BLACK HAND FORUM

Snakes wrote:I guess my logic was you need someone dependable to kill a man like Hoffa, but if you kill him as well you lose a dependable man. Doesn't make sense to me that you'd use expendable guys for such a high-profile murder.

Snakes wrote:

JCB1977 wrote:

Pete wrote:

JCB1977 wrote:

Lupara wrote:Would be hilarious if eventually some noboby who claims to know where Hoffa is burried actually tells the truth and they find the body.

I would have to assume at this point that the mobsters who actually know what happened to him (and I contend there is less than 3 people who actually know the deatils) are now deceased. While orders may have been given, the details of the crime are buried with whoever carried it out. The mafia isn't that good at keeping secrets, especially for 40+ years. While I believe that Provenzano, Bufalino, the Giacalone Brothers were certainly part of the crime, I have no reason to believe they were there watching the crime take place. Chucky O'Brien is the only source at this point who would have any inside information (if he knows anything).

**I certainly DO NOT BELIEVE that they transported one of the highest profile union leader across many state lines to take him and bury him in New Jersey. We know approximately where he was killed, but the burial was pre planned and not outside Michigan. Salvage yards around the Detroit area were perfect places to have him crushed into metal.

Not sure what your basing your assumption in that the people that know what happened are all dead. According to the fbi the two guys I mentioned above were there so they would know what happened and they are alive. Again according to the fbi they were just as involved as chucky

http://articles.latimes.com/1985-07-27/ ... my-hoffa/2

The masterminds behind the hit are long dead...and although Andretta and Bruglio are still alive, there hasn't been enough evidence to bring an indictment. One other reason I have a hard time believing it is because a high profile hit like Hoffa makes it hard for me to believe that the masterminds didn't "cut all ties" with the guys who did the heavy work. Personally, I don't believe that if the masterminds were people like Provenzano, Bufalino, Giacalone, Zerilli etc that they wouldn't whack the killers to ensure nobody talked. I don't see the aforementioned group of masterminds taking any chances...not with how long they were in the game. I could be wrong, but I just have a hard time justifying why they would let the actual killers live to tell the tale.

The only problem with this is that you are going to send your best guys to hit Hoffa, right? Why kill them? What kind of message does that send to the rest of the family? In my opinion, it creates a sense of unease, wherein you follow the bosses' orders and still get killed. Sorry, doesn't make sense to me.

JCB1977 wrote:

Pete wrote:

JCB1977 wrote:

Lupara wrote:Would be hilarious if eventually some noboby who claims to know where Hoffa is burried actually tells the truth and they find the body.

I would have to assume at this point that the mobsters who actually know what happened to him (and I contend there is less than 3 people who actually know the deatils) are now deceased. While orders may have been given, the details of the crime are buried with whoever carried it out. The mafia isn't that good at keeping secrets, especially for 40+ years. While I believe that Provenzano, Bufalino, the Giacalone Brothers were certainly part of the crime, I have no reason to believe they were there watching the crime take place. Chucky O'Brien is the only source at this point who would have any inside information (if he knows anything).

**I certainly DO NOT BELIEVE that they transported one of the highest profile union leader across many state lines to take him and bury him in New Jersey. We know approximately where he was killed, but the burial was pre planned and not outside Michigan. Salvage yards around the Detroit area were perfect places to have him crushed into metal.

Not sure what your basing your assumption in that the people that know what happened are all dead. According to the fbi the two guys I mentioned above were there so they would know what happened and they are alive. Again according to the fbi they were just as involved as chucky

http://articles.latimes.com/1985-07-27/ ... my-hoffa/2

The masterminds behind the hit are long dead...and although Andretta and Bruglio are still alive, there hasn't been enough evidence to bring an indictment. One other reason I have a hard time believing it is because a high profile hit like Hoffa makes it hard for me to believe that the masterminds didn't "cut all ties" with the guys who did the heavy work. Personally, I don't believe that if the masterminds were people like Provenzano, Bufalino, Giacalone, Zerilli etc that they wouldn't whack the killers to ensure nobody talked. I don't see the aforementioned group of masterminds taking any chances...not with how long they were in the game. I could be wrong, but I just have a hard time justifying why they would let the actual killers live to tell the tale.

JCB1977 wrote:

Pete wrote:

JCB1977 wrote:

Lupara wrote:Would be hilarious if eventually some noboby who claims to know where Hoffa is burried actually tells the truth and they find the body.

I would have to assume at this point that the mobsters who actually know what happened to him (and I contend there is less than 3 people who actually know the deatils) are now deceased. While orders may have been given, the details of the crime are buried with whoever carried it out. The mafia isn't that good at keeping secrets, especially for 40+ years. While I believe that Provenzano, Bufalino, the Giacalone Brothers were certainly part of the crime, I have no reason to believe they were there watching the crime take place. Chucky O'Brien is the only source at this point who would have any inside information (if he knows anything).

**I certainly DO NOT BELIEVE that they transported one of the highest profile union leader across many state lines to take him and bury him in New Jersey. We know approximately where he was killed, but the burial was pre planned and not outside Michigan. Salvage yards around the Detroit area were perfect places to have him crushed into metal.

Not sure what your basing your assumption in that the people that know what happened are all dead. According to the fbi the two guys I mentioned above were there so they would know what happened and they are alive. Again according to the fbi they were just as involved as chucky

http://articles.latimes.com/1985-07-27/ ... my-hoffa/2

The masterminds behind the hit are long dead...and although Andretta and Bruglio are still alive, there hasn't been enough evidence to bring an indictment. One other reason I have a hard time believing it is because a high profile hit like Hoffa makes it hard for me to believe that the masterminds didn't "cut all ties" with the guys who did the heavy work. Personally, I don't believe that if the masterminds were people like Provenzano, Bufalino, Giacalone, Zerilli etc that they wouldn't whack the killers to ensure nobody talked. I don't see the aforementioned group of masterminds taking any chances...not with how long they were in the game. I could be wrong, but I just have a hard time justifying why they would let the actual killers live to tell the tale.

Pete wrote:

JCB1977 wrote:

Lupara wrote:Would be hilarious if eventually some noboby who claims to know where Hoffa is burried actually tells the truth and they find the body.

I would have to assume at this point that the mobsters who actually know what happened to him (and I contend there is less than 3 people who actually know the deatils) are now deceased. While orders may have been given, the details of the crime are buried with whoever carried it out. The mafia isn't that good at keeping secrets, especially for 40+ years. While I believe that Provenzano, Bufalino, the Giacalone Brothers were certainly part of the crime, I have no reason to believe they were there watching the crime take place. Chucky O'Brien is the only source at this point who would have any inside information (if he knows anything).

**I certainly DO NOT BELIEVE that they transported one of the highest profile union leader across many state lines to take him and bury him in New Jersey. We know approximately where he was killed, but the burial was pre planned and not outside Michigan. Salvage yards around the Detroit area were perfect places to have him crushed into metal.

Not sure what your basing your assumption in that the people that know what happened are all dead. According to the fbi the two guys I mentioned above were there so they would know what happened and they are alive. Again according to the fbi they were just as involved as chucky

http://articles.latimes.com/1985-07-27/ ... my-hoffa/2

JCB1977 wrote:

Lupara wrote:Would be hilarious if eventually some noboby who claims to know where Hoffa is burried actually tells the truth and they find the body.

I would have to assume at this point that the mobsters who actually know what happened to him (and I contend there is less than 3 people who actually know the deatils) are now deceased. While orders may have been given, the details of the crime are buried with whoever carried it out. The mafia isn't that good at keeping secrets, especially for 40+ years. While I believe that Provenzano, Bufalino, the Giacalone Brothers were certainly part of the crime, I have no reason to believe they were there watching the crime take place. Chucky O'Brien is the only source at this point who would have any inside information (if he knows anything).

**I certainly DO NOT BELIEVE that they transported one of the highest profile union leader across many state lines to take him and bury him in New Jersey. We know approximately where he was killed, but the burial was pre planned and not outside Michigan. Salvage yards around the Detroit area were perfect places to have him crushed into metal.

Lupara wrote:Would be hilarious if eventually some noboby who claims to know where Hoffa is burried actually tells the truth and they find the body.

JCB1977 wrote:

rayray wrote:How would you like to get the job of taking Hoffa out? You'd have to look at yourself in the mirror and think, man this is a death sentence. I wouldn't even want to be the guy getting rid of Hoffa's body or even moving it.

Most likely, the 3 guys who actually were there (and I've suspected that many people had a role but that their roles were not discussed and that Hoffa went to a remote place he felt comfortable around and got taken out by one guy)...probably a stone faced killer who had a few dozen bodies on their hands. Jack Tocco did own that land close by, maybe Zerilli actually provided a clue with Tocco's land. But I don't think Jack Tocco would have sat on that parcel for as long as he did with Jimmy Hoffa buried there...he'd have to be the dumbest mob boss in LCN history, and Jack Tocco certainly was not. I do t think he had "direct" knowledge of the true story, not many did and the masterminds wanted it that way. Whoever the assassin was, he's long dead if not killed by the upper echelon guys who ordered Jimmy's death.

rayray wrote:How would you like to get the job of taking Hoffa out? You'd have to look at yourself in the mirror and think, man this is a death sentence. I wouldn't even want to be the guy getting rid of Hoffa's body or even moving it.