by Angelo Santino » Wed Jan 20, 2016 5:31 pm
toto wrote:He's criminal. Those guys have no integrity. Or maybe Rizzuto did a ceremony with him to trick him for some reason. Its not as if the ceremony and symbols and oaths are secret. Nevertheless, he will never be recognized and if there was a problem for Rizzuto about it he would just say Fernandez is lying. However, it could also be used against Rizzuto by somebody wanting to make a move which is possibly why he wouldn't do such a thing.
Yes, but I've never heard about them promising to make outsiders just to kill them. It's possible (is it?) that Rizzuto told Fernandez that he's made and sent him to Sicily to be killed, similar to LA making Bomp consigliere in the 70's so they could kill him. We can't rule that out. But to put out a fake ceremony? That's only been done in the 90's in Cleveland when the FBI posed as NYC wiseguys and made a black guy and then indicted him.
It just seems that Montreal's connections extended outside of the Italian colony, they made alliances with the local criminals (who weren't connected to a Sicilian Honored Society aka the Mafia) and they became their own New-World Crew, composed of made guys and non-members forming a vast and powerful ring. This is what made the Montreal Crew/decina/Family so influential. So much so that Desjardin and Fernandez believed enough they were a part of "it" to lay claim over it. Think a Montreal version of the Chicago Outfit: an inner circle of made guys, and influential underworld members every bit as influential in the Outfit as some of the made guys themselves.
And in essence, that's what any mafia organization does. Be it in Palermo or America: they mingle. The idea that they only deal with Sicilians or Italians is a myth. Some members might prefer that for themselves, but most of your "break through" mafiosi like Al Capone, Luciano, Costello, to Gotti and any Chicago leader all had vast contacts that extended outside of the mafia/cosa nostra network. I imagine the same is so with influential leaders in Sicily.
I think we are coming to see Cosa Nostra as part of the criminal element rather than dominating it. Desjardin and Fernandez would not have had the clout they had if not for the Rizzutos but the same can be said in reverse. Desjardin and Fernandez, buttoned or not, are just as part of the Montreal organization as anyone else when we look at it objectively. Labeling "made guys" as the only viable Mafia force, is subtracting alot of important elements that make up the force of the mafia epidemic.
Toto or Lupara and other Canadian experts shoot me down if there's anything you disagree with. I'm open.
[quote="toto"]He's criminal. Those guys have no integrity. Or maybe Rizzuto did a ceremony with him to trick him for some reason. Its not as if the ceremony and symbols and oaths are secret. Nevertheless, he will never be recognized and if there was a problem for Rizzuto about it he would just say Fernandez is lying. However, it could also be used against Rizzuto by somebody wanting to make a move which is possibly why he wouldn't do such a thing.[/quote]
Yes, but I've never heard about them promising to make outsiders just to kill them. It's possible (is it?) that Rizzuto told Fernandez that he's made and sent him to Sicily to be killed, similar to LA making Bomp consigliere in the 70's so they could kill him. We can't rule that out. But to put out a fake ceremony? That's only been done in the 90's in Cleveland when the FBI posed as NYC wiseguys and made a black guy and then indicted him.
It just seems that Montreal's connections extended outside of the Italian colony, they made alliances with the local criminals (who weren't connected to a Sicilian Honored Society aka the Mafia) and they became their own New-World Crew, composed of made guys and non-members forming a vast and powerful ring. This is what made the Montreal Crew/decina/Family so influential. So much so that Desjardin and Fernandez believed enough they were a part of "it" to lay claim over it. Think a Montreal version of the Chicago Outfit: an inner circle of made guys, and influential underworld members every bit as influential in the Outfit as some of the made guys themselves.
And in essence, that's what any mafia organization does. Be it in Palermo or America: they mingle. The idea that they only deal with Sicilians or Italians is a myth. Some members might prefer that for themselves, but most of your "break through" mafiosi like Al Capone, Luciano, Costello, to Gotti and any Chicago leader all had vast contacts that extended outside of the mafia/cosa nostra network. I imagine the same is so with influential leaders in Sicily.
I think we are coming to see Cosa Nostra as part of the criminal element rather than dominating it. Desjardin and Fernandez would not have had the clout they had if not for the Rizzutos but the same can be said in reverse. Desjardin and Fernandez, buttoned or not, are just as part of the Montreal organization as anyone else when we look at it objectively. Labeling "made guys" as the only viable Mafia force, is subtracting alot of important elements that make up the force of the mafia epidemic.
Toto or Lupara and other Canadian experts shoot me down if there's anything you disagree with. I'm open.