THE BLACK HAND FORUM

B. wrote: ↑Sat Aug 27, 2022 3:04 am Arillotta says Massino told him in WitSec that he killed Sciascia for an unsanctioned murder in Canada, matches almost verbatim to what Massino testified.

Hilarious about Massino and Arillotta having a fight and Massino taking away the clams.

Also said there was controversy as Artie Nigro was told he was official boss but others thought he was acting. Has this come out before? Said he was elevated direct from soldier in the DeLuca crew to being admin/boss. Almost sounds like they were doing what they've been rumored to do for decades by confusing people about titles.

Arillotta says the Spiritos are "dangerous guys." Frank says Spirito Sr. is a nice guy who "breathes that life."

-from john bologna 302 notes:
- The Genovese family has a new way of getting rid of people they don’t want
- They promote them, believing they will draw law enforcement attention to themselves
- This is easier than killing them

Dapper_Don wrote: ↑Fri Aug 26, 2022 6:31 pm They let it slip that Tom met/interviewed? Joe Massino, check it out its at the 53:26 mark.

Tom I know your on here, if true kudos to you my friend as I am sure many of us will look forward to that.

If he did pull this off this is defiantly the biggest interview in the history of OC in america.I wonder how much he paid him because im sure JM had offers from Vlad and Patrick bet

Why was I utterly unsurprised when he speaks on a coke dealing Sicilian immigrant? Can we speculate on whether this guy was Sicilian mafia? Could he have been that Caruana? I'm lost on the timeline.....

He just said "Italian" didn't he? Springfield immigrants are almost all from the Italian mainland.

Caruana of the NE Family was long gone by Arillotta's time.

- Massino didn't get Cotroni's name wrong, they just phonetically transcribed it as "Catrone". Maybe he said the last vowel differently but he did know his name when referring to both the son's murder and Cotroni's slot needing to be replaced.

- We've gone through it a lot, but one of the stronger arguments against Massino is that a rival biker gang committed the murder who were opposed to a gang that was in league with the mafia. The hitman also wasn't told anything about the mafia influencing or ordering it. This assumes though that Sciascia didn't have channels to both gangs and reached out to the rival gang on purpose to insulate himself, with the hitman's superiors purposely keeping that a secret. It also assumes the relationship between the mafia and biker gangs was one-dimensional ("we're only friends with these guys, not those guys") -- Sciascia was a shrewd guy by all accounts, so I can't comment on who he had contact with and how he would have gone about the murder. We know Canadian mafiosi are very open to getting outside help with murders.

- We also know Cotroni was doing multiple things that may have warranted his murder, sort of like Sciascia himself, and with these murders we tend to assume there's only one reason why it happened when often there are multiple issues that contribute to a mafia-linked killing. The bikers as well as Sciascia may have had a mutual interest in eliminating Cotroni, just as Massino may have been pissed at Sciascia for his subversive comments and the Cotroni murder sealed the deal with both factors contributing. We don't necessarily have to choose one single narrative.

- I'm open to the counter-evidence but a big thing for me is that someone told Joe Massino how Cotroni's son assaulted someone and was killed as a result. He says Sciascia himself told him about it and that's as good of a guess as any. Either way someone told Massino about the Cotroni situation -- it's unlikely he was Googling Montreal or read it in a Canadian newspaper, though it would be interesting if he was in fact keeping his own tabs on Montreal and used what he knew to invent a story about Sciascia.

- What's significant in Arillotta's story is Massino said Sciascia told him he knew Massino would have approved the murder which is why he did it on his own. Massino told Arillotta he agreed he would have authorized the murder, but Sciascia doing it on his own was a problem. This adds substance to speculation that the nephew Cotroni assaulted was Joe Renda. If Cotroni hit a made guy like Renda that explains why Sciascia was confident in having Cotroni killed and Massino agreed it normally would have warranted it if Sciascia had followed protocol. It does sound like Cotroni assaulted a made guy.

This is my second time seeing this guy. I like Arrilotta, he comes off as a real gangster...

Some thoughts...

• I found it kinda funny Arrilotta said he did ALL the main mafia stuff, but made his big money with marijuana. As a fellow weed guy, I like him... and he operated EXACTLY how I picture mob guys doing it. As a Mr Big, taking theirs off the top... big money moves. A liquidity mine basically. I swear I don't know where people get the dime bag bullshit and Italians....... which brings me to....

• Why was I utterly unsurprised when he speaks on a coke dealing Sicilian immigrant? Can we speculate on whether this guy was Sicilian mafia? Could he have been that Caruana? I'm lost on the timeline.....

• I get all the protocol stuff, but, respectfully, it was nice seeing a ex- capo explain a crew acting autonomously, in reality and not theory. I honestly feel like Canada was like 40 Arrilottas.... his type of mindset....

• His whole take on Bruno was THE most fascinating part of the whole thing. The idea that he got killed because he was trying to pull a Scarpa, and cultivate an FBI agent as an asset. Same shit Scoppa was trying to pull up in Canada..

• On the Cotroni kid getting hit....we got a couple of loose threads...

1. Antimafia has a guy confessing to killing this Cotroni for unrelated mob issues, if I remember correctly. He even said Massino if it were in Canada , could be sued.
What gives? Did Sciascia use that guy to kill the Cotroni kid?

2. Chin posted an excerpt from a wire, I think. Massino and Basicano. I forget the exact thread, but Massino seemed like he could barely pronounce the name right, like he had never heard of it. Basciano almost dismisses the surname entirely. Is it possible the Cotroni name was THAT....I dunno... out of favor? To the point the NY guys would be unfamiliar with the name? I found it weird, Basciano, a drug guy connected to Canada didn't know the name Cotroni.

I'm forgetting some other stuff, maybe I'll ask more later...

Newyorkempire wrote: ↑Sat Aug 27, 2022 2:28 pm

Tonyd621 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 27, 2022 2:25 pm I don't think Arrilota is always truthful. He plays the victim. If it wasn't for the mob I would made more money...if it wasn't for the violence I would still be on the street He never brings up how he left is wife and his 3 biological kids on food stamps

He left them with none of the millions and millions he claims he made?

I believe him and his side piece took off into the sunset then when around 2017 he was arrested for throwing lemonade at a relative and threatening to kill a dog. So he ran out of money I'd assume when he showed up on podcast

chin_gigante wrote: ↑Sat Aug 27, 2022 3:35 pm Very interesting part about an hour in. Arillotta talks about how Ralph Natale was still acting like he was a boss in prison and says he inducted Philip Casale in a mock ceremony after they both cooperated

Yeah. Massino too telling that Bonanno CW who asked him about murder, "When I straightened you out I said never ask about a murder after the fact" haha.

I've heard the other story Frank told about "someone" showing Puerto Ricans how the making ceremony works and it's exactly who you'd guess it was.

Very interesting part about an hour in. Arillotta talks about how Ralph Natale was still acting like he was a boss in prison and says he inducted Philip Casale in a mock ceremony after they both cooperated

Tonyd621 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 27, 2022 2:25 pm I don't think Arrilota is always truthful. He plays the victim. If it wasn't for the mob I would made more money...if it wasn't for the violence I would still be on the street He never brings up how he left is wife and his 3 biological kids on food stamps

He left them with none of the millions and millions he claims he made?

I don't think Arrilota is always truthful. He plays the victim. If it wasn't for the mob I would made more money...if it wasn't for the violence I would still be on the street He never brings up how he left is wife and his 3 biological kids on food stamps

B. wrote: ↑Sat Aug 27, 2022 3:04 am Arillotta says Massino told him in WitSec that he killed Sciascia for an unsanctioned murder in Canada, matches almost verbatim to what Massino testified.

Hilarious about Massino and Arillotta having a fight and Massino taking away the clams.

Also said there was controversy as Artie Nigro was told he was official boss but others thought he was acting. Has this come out before? Said he was elevated direct from soldier in the DeLuca crew to being admin/boss. Almost sounds like they were doing what they've been rumored to do for decades by confusing people about titles.

Arillotta says the Spiritos are "dangerous guys." Frank says Spirito Sr. is a nice guy who "breathes that life."

I'm not sure what to make of his claims about the Gens putting up front bosses. He talks about his own experience in Springfield and how the plan was to elevate a captain but then have him run things from the backend. I'm not about to argue with him about his organization but I would like to know more of the nuances of it.

Arillotta says Massino told him in WitSec that he killed Sciascia for an unsanctioned murder in Canada, matches almost verbatim to what Massino testified.

Hilarious about Massino and Arillotta having a fight and Massino taking away the clams.

Also said there was controversy as Artie Nigro was told he was official boss but others thought he was acting. Has this come out before? Said he was elevated direct from soldier in the DeLuca crew to being admin/boss. Almost sounds like they were doing what they've been rumored to do for decades by confusing people about titles.

Arillotta says the Spiritos are "dangerous guys." Frank says Spirito Sr. is a nice guy who "breathes that life."

Amershire_Ed wrote: ↑Fri Aug 26, 2022 11:45 am What’s unique about Arillotta is that it’s clear he doesn’t regret the criminal lifestyle, he regrets living the criminal lifestyle and getting involved with wiseguys. In one of his interviews with John and Gene, they did this thing at the end where they each gave one piece of advice to “at risk youth”. And Borello and Alite both basically said “stay in school, play sports, don’t sell drugs, etc”. Arillotta, on the other hand, was basically like “if you are gonna go the street route, don’t get mixed up with the mob. Just get a couple guys you trust. You’ll make more money and not nearly as many headaches.” LOL it was pretty funny.

Arilotta blames the mob for flipping. Eventhough the hit on his brother in law-Westerman was his own doing and sought outside help to get it done and was one of the key charges that got him alot of time.

They let it slip that Tom met/interviewed? Joe Massino, check it out its at the 53:26 mark.

Tom I know your on here, if true kudos to you my friend as I am sure many of us will look forward to that.

aray22 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 26, 2022 5:08 pm They made them strip down to their underwear before conducting the ceremony.

I guess you can call that a dick.


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