THE BLACK HAND FORUM

I don't think I've seen anything post 1968. 1965-67 I can't think of anything off the top of my head. I think Bill Bonanno in his book said that Magaddino didn't attend DiGregorio's daughter's wedding, and he took that to be a sign that their relationship was strained. I feel like I saw an FBI report that said something similar, that Magaddino was disappointed at him for not being able to unite the family and their relationship became strained, but I'm not a 100% on that.

The Colombo comparison is pretty apt I believe. I do think that something similar happened, although it is still a little too murky as to when they got their seat back initially. I think its possible it was with Sciacca, as a few different informants reported he received a seat when he became boss, but so was Mari and we know that wasn't the case.

It was reported that in July 1969, that Frank Valenti was attempting to gain support for Joseph Bonanno to take over the “Magaddino Family territory”. If successful, he “will be a big man in Bonanno plans for the Magaddino territory”. The informant stated that the two had always been close, and Valenti was the “logical one to act as an agent for Bonanno”. Magaddino was apparently aware of this according to the source, and was “outraged” about it.

The same source stated that Bonanno was in "good graces" with the Commission, and could take over the Magaddino Family. So not totally in the loop, but that could be part of the connection.

Are there any NYC Bonnno connections to Rochester? I know we talked about this a few times, so apologies if its been mentioned before but I'm blanking at the moment.

thekiduknow wrote: ↑Sat Aug 13, 2022 4:24 pm As always, there's more questions than answers.

Let's ask Gravano. Seems like he can answer everything.

Have you come across anything about the Bonannos consulting with Magaddino after 1968? He was losing a grip on his own Family and getting old, plus DiGregorio stepped down and died, so all of that may have had an impact. If the Bonannos did report to Magaddino in the mid-1960s, the situation he was in after 1968 or his 1974 death may have given the Bonannos an opportunity to regain a seat.

The Colombo Family 1961-1964 was arguably in as bad of shape as the Bonannos 1964-1968 in terms of violence and political conflict, but they had no issue giving Joe Colombo a seat so maybe the Bonannos were given one for a time when things initially stabilized, only for it to be taken away again.

We still have the Rochester issue too. Sources stated the Bonannos had influence over Rochester and the FBI carried Rochester members on Bonanno lists from the mid-1970s into the 1980s. Rochester was never recognized as its own Cosa Nostra Family and technically was no different from the Gallo faction, so just as some Gallo people were put under the protection of the Gambino Family I've wondered if the rebel Rochester members were assigned to the Bonannos. This happens to coincide with the period we're talking about, where Galante allegedly attended a Commission meeting.

As always, there's more questions than answers.

I think you're right in that it they lost the seat after the turmoil of 1979-1981, and then the Donnie Brasco situation could have sealed the deal. That Salerno quote you posted above lends itself to that, "sort out your family, and then we'll talk about the Commission".

Galante attending a Commission meeting makes sense if he was officially acting boss. He just seemed to have that intense presence in the family, having him take a leadership position could have been to try and placate him. Boy did that work out.

Yeah, I'm curious if the informant (possibly Lenny Dello) was at the meeting or who he heard it from. It'd be interesting if Rastelli was given a Commission seat as he went to prison shortly after his election and though Galante was initially sanctioned as acting boss it's pretty wild they would let him participate given his loyalty to Bonanno. As you know, informants were widely reporting potential issues with Galante before and after his release from prison in the 1970s -- allowing him to participate in Commission affairs seems like a disaster in the making.

If Rastelli was initially given a seat, why did they take it away from him by the time Salerno was recorded saying he couldn't sit on the Commission? The Commission recognized him as the rightful boss and backed him against Galante and then the three captains, so if he did ever sit on the Commission I can only guess they stripped him of his seat because of the ongoing conflicts in the late 1970s and 80s (i.e. we support you as boss, but if you can't manage your own Family you have no place on the Commission).

B. wrote: ↑Thu Aug 11, 2022 7:38 pm Carmine Galante supposedly attended the Commission meeting where they mediated the DiBella-Persico vs. Yacovelli-Abbatemarco conflict in 1976.

B. wrote: ↑Fri Aug 12, 2022 3:59 pm The info about the Colombo dispute may have come from Colombo member Lenny Dello. Whoever the CI was, he filled the FBI in on a lot of Colombo Family intrigues from that period including the leadership conflict.

I was always under the impression that once the Bonannos lost their seat in 1964 they never got it back but thinking about it now I don't know. I was surprised when I first saw the reference to Galante attending the Commission meeting. Whether the Bonannos had a seat or they simply included the acting boss of the Bonannos because it concerned all of NYC isn't clear to me.

Not sure if this is the exact report you mentioned but seems to cover the same situation. The informant lists Galante as sitting on the Commission:




If that's true, it again brings up the question of whether Galante was there officially representing Rastelli, or if he was just de facto representing the family.

When Frank DeSimone became boss, he was told to "maintain lines of communication to the Commission through Joe Bonanno" according to Bompensiero.

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.htm ... lPageId=11

So, Bonanno represented all of California and the Colorado family. Did he also represent the Dallas family?

Great find on Magaddino. If it's true he repped the Bonannos in the 1960s he may have also taken on San Francisco since they were previously under the Bonannos.

It seems like the Gambino Family took over representing the Bonannos, maybe after Magaddino's death, as we see them report the Galante murder to Dellacroce, Sal Catalano met with Castellano when he became acting boss (and they took on a murder contract to curry favor with them), then Castellano/Dellacroce were consulted for the three captains hit. I've never seen it stated that the arrangement was formal, though.

I previously believed the Colombo Family repped the San Jose Family because of John Misuraca's influence over them and top leaders by the 1960s having roots in that Family, but it looks like the Bonannos did represent the whole Bay Area before Bonanno's fall. One of the SJ informants said they consulted John Misuraca for his brother's underworld trial but that may have just been due to the relation, as they said Joe Bonanno would ultimately be consulted too.

thekiduknow wrote: ↑Sat Aug 13, 2022 11:12 am Excellent point about that meeting. Hadn't thought about in depth, but that makes more sense it was more of a procedural meeting rather than them just flying up for advice.

Off hand, I can't think of any families Magaddino would have represented, but I don't know much about Buffalo. This might be a good thread on its own, breaking down which families represented others on the Commission. We know that it would change due to politics/leadership changes.

This is from a 1970 report. Both informants are actually Anthony Lima.

San Jose member Angelo Marino referred to Joseph Bonanno as the "District Head" in 1962. So, Magaddino looks to have represented San Francisco after Bonanno lost his seat in 1964.

Excellent point about that meeting. Hadn't thought about in depth, but that makes more sense it was more of a procedural meeting rather than them just flying up for advice.

Off hand, I can't think of any families Magaddino would have represented, but I don't know much about Buffalo. This might be a good thread on its own, breaking down which families represented others on the Commission. We know that it would change due to politics/leadership changes.

thekiduknow wrote: ↑Fri Aug 12, 2022 10:48 pm Another question I have is, since it seems likely that DiGregorio did not sit on the Commission, did Magaddino or another family officially represent them as an avugad in the mid 1960s? What about in the 80s when they were off the Commission?

Good question. The Bonannos had no boss or Commission seat by January 1965 when the Bonanno leaders consulted Magaddino about how to elect DiGregorio. This is the same process any "subordinate" Family would have followed when electing a new boss -- they would consult their avugad. Magaddino seems like the most likely avugad at least in the 1960s. Adding to this is DiGregorio was put under the protection of the Commission but specifically answered to Magaddino.

It plays into something Tony and I were talking about recently too -- were their Commission members who didn't represent other Families? There is very little info about whether Magaddino formally represented other Families nationally despite the concensus that he was seen as a first among equals on the Commission.

Another question I have is, since it seems likely that DiGregorio did not sit on the Commission, did Magaddino or another family officially represent them as an avugad in the mid 1960s? What about in the 80s when they were off the Commission?

B. wrote: ↑Fri Aug 12, 2022 9:37 pm

CabriniGreen wrote: ↑Fri Aug 12, 2022 9:24 pm I thought Fat Tony was on tape saying Rastelli could be boss. But not on the Commision, and referenced his " crew of 80 guys moving junk" as a big reason why? No?

Here are two quotes from Tony Salerno during separate conversations on the Palma Boys tapes:

"Tony Ducks told Rusty, he said, 'Listen,' he said, 'take care of your Family first. Straighten out your Family and when you straighten them out, then we talk about the Commission.'"

"... this guy wants to be the boss. He can be the boss as far as I'm concerned...but he cannot be on the Commission. One vote is enough to throw it out. Because, the Commission thing, it's supposed to be such a sacred thing."

Important to note were from the early-mid 80s, and sound very much in the context of the three captains murder/Donnie Brasco. Prior to that, I wonder how the other families viewed Rastelli/the family.

CabriniGreen wrote: ↑Fri Aug 12, 2022 9:22 pm

thekiduknow wrote: ↑Thu Aug 11, 2022 8:47 pm That would seem to imply that Rastelli was a Commission member, and that Galante was acting for him at least initially.

You really think Galante did anything on Rastellis behalf? This is a real question here.

I think they just couldn't keep Galante out of the loop. He was too powerful.

That could be the case too. He could have just stated he was representing the Bonannos, and the other families gone along with it since Rastelli was in prison.

CabriniGreen wrote: ↑Fri Aug 12, 2022 9:24 pm I thought Fat Tony was on tape saying Rastelli could be boss. But not on the Commision, and referenced his " crew of 80 guys moving junk" as a big reason why? No?

I though the quote from Fat Tony was more or less “they are all junk men.” Referring to the Bonanno Family.

Those tapes also indicate to me the Commission didn't recognize an official Bonanno boss for a period. They had to "re-ratify" Rastelli after the Family conflict(s).

Something similar played out after the Colombo war in the 1990s, where Allie Persico met with leaders of other Families requesting that they again recognize Carmine as official boss, indicating the other Families stopped recognizing him during the war.

Historically the Commission refused to recognized a newly elected boss during times of conflict (this happened to Nick Delmore, John LaRocca, and Joe Magliocco), but it sounds like they may have stopped recognizing an existing official boss during conflict too. Not positive I'm interpreting it right but I've seen more than one reference to this type of situation.