THE BLACK HAND FORUM

Oh u know what

In queens: Long Island city In remember small bar thst had small bets in the open too that had numbers

I lived in bed stuy off of nostrsand ave
(This is already 8 plus years ago tho)
It’s mostly black and the numbers racket there was huge
The building is extremely hidden n had fence around it thst you had to get buzzed in the building inside there

Then you go in and it hd like liquor store bullet proof window with the customer window where the out there numbers in the paper to pass

This did not look Italian mafia by any means which made me little disappointed but other ethnic group organized run for sure

I don’t think bed stuy ever had mafia presence tho it’s pretty much the only plce in bk all hood n filled with rappers

Getting to the original question, "fresh talk" is a vague term. Getting info from the source is usually best - if there are follow-up questions. This is why someone testifying under oath has more credibility than just some guy telling his story. However, if you have the opportunity to ask your source good follow-up questions that's even better. Attorneys can't fact-check as well as a knowledgeable historian.

[quote=PolackTony post_id=235275 time=1659978656 user_id=6658]
[quote=newera_212 post_id=235264 time=1659973050 user_id=5522]
[quote=CornerBoy post_id=235130 time=1659803431 user_id=5642]
I was suprised to find out the "numbers racket" is very much still alive AT LEAST all along dekalb avenue. I can add more to this later. But when you know dude that's addicted to it personally, it debunks a lot of the assertions that numbers is dead.
[/quote]

Numbers still exist in a lot of neighborhoods that has people from the carribbean, dominican republic, and whatever still remains of NY's puerto rican population. My mother in law still plays her numbers and a lot of older people do too. I have no idea what type of unification, organization, and standardization there is between the Bodegas and other small businesses that offer it - if any at all. For all I know each store may be running it's own thing. Loansharking is somewhat prevalent in those communities as well, I know a few different examples of different Dominican owned grocery stores where people come by and dish out $100 at the beginning of the week to all of the workers and get back $120 on Friday when the workers get paid. There's a lot of "LCN Light" type of activities in these communities where they still deal with cash more than mainstream gentrified neighborhoods, there are a lot of small business owners, everyone knows eachother (or knows someone who knows you, etc), etc.
[/quote]
Yeah, its definitely a thing in the Caribbean Latino community. I know both PRs and DRs who faithfully play “el numero” or “la Bolita”. All older folks, FWIW, so I think that Wiseguy’s question as to the generational aspect is important. I don’t know anyone under, like, 50-ish who plays (maybe they’re out there but most of my friends are in this demographic and it’s their parents etc who play, not them). So it may be in for a steep decline in coming years. I have some Dominican friends whose families operate bodegas in the Heights/Inwood and the Bx. From the very little that I know, there doesn’t seem to be any “syndicate” running their numbers and my guess is that they’re independent and self-run, but I really can’t say for sure. Do Mexicans and other non-Caribbeans have a similar thing is a question I’ve had. I have no idea. I imagine that some of them probably play at the DR bodegas, but whether their own businesses have similar operations going, I have no idea. Hard to imagine that places like Jackson Heights don’t have some of these kinds of OC activities running, but if it’s more organized than independent operators, I’d have no clue.
[/quote]

Taking the thread off topic here but it's kind of interesting. Yeah, I have no idea but if I were to speculate I highly highly doubt there is structure and organization, and doubt there is some immigrant shadow syndicate providing the bank and taking the lions share, with a boss sitting somewhere down in Santiago. I tend to think it's just the store owners doing their own thing with help of close family and friends.

I know a lot of domincans and i referenced bolita and loansharking above, but there's just this cultural thing with them, where those activities aren't being done by them as criminals to get over on people, or to really enrich themselves. Sure they gotta make what they can make, but it's different. I don't know how to explain it. Like for a Dominican loaning money at interest to people they know, the thought of "maybe I can expand this, and have other people loan money out for me too, and go city wide with it. Maybe I can clique up with other people doing the same thing and really grow something here" doesn't even cross their minds. It's almost thought of as a favor or service they're providing to people they know versus a way to make passive, easy money for themselves. Yeah there are scumbags there just like any group of people, but in my experience almost all of them are extremely god fearing, law fearing, and much more than anything else - worried about their reputation in the eyes of the community, and their family's reputation too. I think a lot of this is dependent on where they came from in DR too, though. In NY you'll find a majority of Dominicans aren't from the Capital, and look down on those who are...no matter how small the town they came from is.

What you said about Jackson Heights - basically anywhere along the 7 train from like Woodside to Shea Stadium - I suspect has a lot of 'activity' going on all along there. I feel like the cops just leave it alone because there's such a dense mix of different types of people, speaking different languages, a lot probably don't have citizenship too, that they wouldn't even know where to start or want to deal with it. The only time I've ever heard about any trouble out that way has been prostitution busts, and it was egregious (like Columbian female bartenders openly taking customers to an apartment above the bar) - and the only reason THAT happened was because the Vice Cops that were supposed to be handling it were being investigated themselves.

None of this is to even pretend to say some new 1st generation immigrant group is going to take over OC - but in any enclave you'll find small LCN'ish rackets (and more hard cash moving around than the upscale neighborhoods) going on I'm sure

I also think the non-Caribbean latinos in the city pretty much fall in line behind the DRs. They're nowhere near as established and I know there are some little Mexican strips around with authentic food, small Mexican or Ecuadorian bodegas, maybe a bar that plays Mexican ballads - but for the most part they are 'under' the Carribbeans who have frankly just been here longer. They are the ones who own real businesses, property, are a lot more plugged in, have kids working City jobs, etc. Maybe in 20-30 years it'll be different

fresh street talk is LOL, it got turned into like a real thing...usually members who have died get bubbled up first word of mouth or identifying pictures. bronx has come thru with a quite a few photos IDs over the years. that's what posters are usually good at.

[quote=newera_212 post_id=235264 time=1659973050 user_id=5522]
[quote=CornerBoy post_id=235130 time=1659803431 user_id=5642]
I was suprised to find out the "numbers racket" is very much still alive AT LEAST all along dekalb avenue. I can add more to this later. But when you know dude that's addicted to it personally, it debunks a lot of the assertions that numbers is dead.
[/quote]

Numbers still exist in a lot of neighborhoods that has people from the carribbean, dominican republic, and whatever still remains of NY's puerto rican population. My mother in law still plays her numbers and a lot of older people do too. I have no idea what type of unification, organization, and standardization there is between the Bodegas and other small businesses that offer it - if any at all. For all I know each store may be running it's own thing. Loansharking is somewhat prevalent in those communities as well, I know a few different examples of different Dominican owned grocery stores where people come by and dish out $100 at the beginning of the week to all of the workers and get back $120 on Friday when the workers get paid. There's a lot of "LCN Light" type of activities in these communities where they still deal with cash more than mainstream gentrified neighborhoods, there are a lot of small business owners, everyone knows eachother (or knows someone who knows you, etc), etc.
[/quote]
Yeah, its definitely a thing in the Caribbean Latino community. I know both PRs and DRs who faithfully play “el numero” or “la Bolita”. All older folks, FWIW, so I think that Wiseguy’s question as to the generational aspect is important. I don’t know anyone under, like, 50-ish who plays (maybe they’re out there but most of my friends are in this demographic and it’s their parents etc who play, not them). So it may be in for a steep decline in coming years. I have some Dominican friends whose families operate bodegas in the Heights/Inwood and the Bx. From the very little that I know, there doesn’t seem to be any “syndicate” running their numbers and my guess is that they’re independent and self-run, but I really can’t say for sure. Do Mexicans and other non-Caribbeans have a similar thing is a question I’ve had. I have no idea. I imagine that some of them probably play at the DR bodegas, but whether their own businesses have similar operations going, I have no idea. Hard to imagine that places like Jackson Heights don’t have some of these kinds of OC activities running, but if it’s more organized than independent operators, I’d have no clue.

[quote=CornerBoy post_id=235130 time=1659803431 user_id=5642]
I was suprised to find out the "numbers racket" is very much still alive AT LEAST all along dekalb avenue. I can add more to this later. But when you know dude that's addicted to it personally, it debunks a lot of the assertions that numbers is dead.
[/quote]

Numbers still exist in a lot of neighborhoods that has people from the carribbean, dominican republic, and whatever still remains of NY's puerto rican population. My mother in law still plays her numbers and a lot of older people do too. I have no idea what type of unification, organization, and standardization there is between the Bodegas and other small businesses that offer it - if any at all. For all I know each store may be running it's own thing. Loansharking is somewhat prevalent in those communities as well, I know a few different examples of different Dominican owned grocery stores where people come by and dish out $100 at the beginning of the week to all of the workers and get back $120 on Friday when the workers get paid. There's a lot of "LCN Light" type of activities in these communities where they still deal with cash more than mainstream gentrified neighborhoods, there are a lot of small business owners, everyone knows eachother (or knows someone who knows you, etc), etc.

[quote=CornerBoy post_id=235130 time=1659803431 user_id=5642]
I was suprised to find out the "numbers racket" is very much still alive AT LEAST all along dekalb avenue. I can add more to this later. But when you know dude that's addicted to it personally, it debunks a lot of the assertions that numbers is dead.
[/quote]

It’s boom time for LCN gambling interests. You can basically carry it out in the open (busts were very costly). Add some loansharking and some weed dealing and life is good for many

[quote=CornerBoy post_id=235130 time=1659803431 user_id=5642]
I was suprised to find out the "numbers racket" is very much still alive AT LEAST all along dekalb avenue. I can add more to this later. But when you know dude that's addicted to it personally, it debunks a lot of the assertions that numbers is dead.
[/quote]

Interestingly, there hasn't been a mob numbers bust in over a decade. The last one I'm aware of was a Gambino-connected one in 2011. Even in other communities, while not dead, doesn't seem to be what it once was. I've wondered if it's a generational thing, i.e. the older people who played the numbers dying off and the younger ones playing the state lotto or whatever.

I was suprised to find out the "numbers racket" is very much still alive AT LEAST all along dekalb avenue. I can add more to this later. But when you know dude that's addicted to it personally, it debunks a lot of the assertions that numbers is dead.

Street talk = Trust but verify. I trust what I hear, but don't share everything, and understand why people would be leery. Verify is incredibly difficult unless you're close. I have been, and still am in a couple of instances. A small sample size, and a very narrow scope overall. And I understand things vary from crew to crew, famiglia to famiglia, and region to region. Frankly even day to day, hour by hour and everything is extremely situationally.

Inducted member - If it is first hand, and there is a long term relationship with proven results.

Inducted member turned rat - Trust but verify, and understand they say anything the Feds want to hear. Testimony is largely and generally true, But even there we have significant instances of outright disinformation. To the point the Feds essentially fired one where I was very familiar with the situation. The You Tube guys are a joke. I've watched maybe 10 minutes total of these in my lifetime. I'm just not that interested, and I know they're full of shit and exaggerate

Feds - Understand that to get an indictment is easy. Understand they don't need to be perfect with information, they only need information to get a conviction. Indictment and conviction information is very good, but not perfect, and sometimes wildly off about details and matters that aren't germane, but details and matters in which people on this site might, and probably are, interested in.

Media - I somewhat trust the one gentleman on this site becuase he has first hand experience with some of the same poeple I do. The history he writes though I have no idea about, and no interest in. But the people he has met that I have met I have no reason to doubt him, and at this point, his discretion. After that, media is not to be trusted in any matter, especially those which might impact my net worth, and standard of living. Trust but verify.

Posters on this board that are researchers - Hard to argue with empirical data and most evidence, unless they are relying on something mentioned above. The same doesn't hold true for some of their conclusion and speculation. A good researcher does not equal a personal able to make accurate assumptions. The good ones preface their assumptions, and I have respect for that.

Posters on this board that post street stuff - There are two, maybe three on here that I would assume are somewhat close based on their posts. Again, a very narrow scope becuase I only know when they post about something I know about. Other subjects I'm making an assumption based on previous accurate posts, tat I know to be accurate. I haven't been on here long, but two posters I went back and researched past posts over a period of years, with key word searches related to topics I know about, and they are pretty spot on. They also never post active stuff, or if they do, they generalize, which I understand. This actually made me a bit uncomfortable.

A combination of all of the above, each factor weighed differently for different people, is probably a fairly accurate picture. It depends on what you're looking for. History? There are some pretty decent researchers on here. Current inside baseball that's probably very accurate, but largely unknown and unverifiable? That universe is pretty narrow on this board, and everywhere. So in may case I read the street stuff, things I believe and things I don't. I weight that more heavily becuase I have some experience. Again, narrow in scope. I have no interest in 50 years ago, and I have no interest in some of the speculation about details, becuase I lives some details, and those are the only details I know factually, and I understand they are different depending on group, geography, earning ability etc. I know factually an associate that earns has more respect given than a dead beat made guy.

It's like running a business. You develop relationships that are long term, based on trust, and developed over long periods of time. Not 18 months.

That's my take, and the reasons why I read what I do, and how I value some poster's content above others. It is also a personal thing in that I don't spend time on topics that don't interest me, or could directly impact me. Even though at this point it shouldn't make any differences, but old habits die very hard. And I'd not do anything to jeopardize current relationships where I can say I like the people, and consider them my friends. It's a different category of friends, and you learn to compartmentalize.

My general rule:

Information from inducted members --> information from the FBI --> information from journalists

What do you all tend to believe? I know from military intel dude/dudette that half of the news that's out there is deliberate misinformation. don't know if that extends to the mob, i think she meant current events- i didn't press him / her and I don't get to see this human often as they live in the midwest Nebraska/ Oklahoma now, Wisconsin prior.

Anyway from a mob standpoint, what do you guys believe?

I can elucidate if necessary to make the question clearer

THANKS