Is Chicago Mob’s Famous Family Secrets Case On Verge Of A Reopening? Miceli Makes It In Front Of Federal Judge In Quest

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Expand view Topic review: Is Chicago Mob’s Famous Family Secrets Case On Verge Of A Reopening? Miceli Makes It In Front Of Federal Judge In Quest

Re: Is Chicago Mob’s Famous Family Secrets Case On Verge Of A Reopening? Miceli Makes It In Front Of Federal Judge In Qu

by Antiliar » Fri Mar 17, 2023 9:42 am

He said it in his videos and on Facebook

Re: Is Chicago Mob’s Famous Family Secrets Case On Verge Of A Reopening? Miceli Makes It In Front Of Federal Judge In Qu

by CornerBoy » Fri Mar 17, 2023 5:26 am

Antiliar wrote: Sun Jul 31, 2022 11:20 am Chuck Miceli led authorities on a wild goose chase in Florida with his wild claims and his credibility was destroyed. He swindled people out of hundreds of thousands of dollars and claimed he knew where a bunch of missing children were buried, and none of those claims panned out. If anyone has listened to him on podcasts he comes of as a Forrest Gump character who just happened to be in all the right historical places at the right time. Regarding the Seifert killing, I'm not sure how far an alleged appearance before an 8-year-old boy is worth.

As for John DiFronzo, it should be pointed out that Louis Marino was said to have been there when the Spilotros were killed and he also wasn't charged. Moreover, Red Wemette claims that he saw proof that DiFronzo was secretly informing, which if true could explain why he wasn't called.
where u see where RW says he has proof of ratting? thx

Re: Is Chicago Mob’s Famous Family Secrets Case On Verge Of A Reopening? Miceli Makes It In Front Of Federal Judge In Qu

by Frank » Tue Mar 14, 2023 9:20 pm

Coloboy wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 8:55 pm In regards to Antiliar’s statement about Humphries being able to go over Accardo to get approval from Ricca….

This reinforces some of my beliefs surrounding the ultimate organization of power at the top of the outfit. While the outfit did seem to share power and get along relatively well, it was still a vertical organization, meaning at the end of the day everyone had to answer to someone.

I recall Joe Fosco relating some things Mike Magnaficchi said to him around 2013 or 2014 , right as the rumors were that Difronzo was stepping down and Joe Andriacchi had taken his place as the “Man”. Supposedly Mags said something to the tune of “he was only the 5th or 6th guy to hold that spot”.

Despite bosses like Giancana and Aiuppa being official “representante” , which they surely we’re in terms of national LCN, they were not necessarily the top of the pecking order in the Chicago Outfit.

I truly believe that the final word, which they didn’t always choose to exercise, has always landed with one of the men in this small group…

Al Capone - 1925 -32ish

Paul Ricca- Mid 30’s until 1972.

Tony Accardo - 1972-1992

Difronzo- 1997- until 2013ish

??????? 2013 -today (It is quissible Joe Andriacchi still holds the role)


Read between the lines on all the LE documents you can get your hands on, as well as newspaper articles (as many of you do) and you may come to the the same conclusion
[/quote
It was Aiuppa not Capone on that list.

Re: Is Chicago Mob’s Famous Family Secrets Case On Verge Of A Reopening? Miceli Makes It In Front Of Federal Judge In Qu

by Snakes » Tue Aug 09, 2022 9:05 am

They threw out the motion from Miceli

Re: Is Chicago Mob’s Famous Family Secrets Case On Verge Of A Reopening? Miceli Makes It In Front Of Federal Judge In Qu

by Coloboy » Mon Aug 08, 2022 8:55 pm

In regards to Antiliar’s statement about Humphries being able to go over Accardo to get approval from Ricca….

This reinforces some of my beliefs surrounding the ultimate organization of power at the top of the outfit. While the outfit did seem to share power and get along relatively well, it was still a vertical organization, meaning at the end of the day everyone had to answer to someone.

I recall Joe Fosco relating some things Mike Magnaficchi said to him around 2013 or 2014 , right as the rumors were that Difronzo was stepping down and Joe Andriacchi had taken his place as the “Man”. Supposedly Mags said something to the tune of “he was only the 5th or 6th guy to hold that spot”.

Despite bosses like Giancana and Aiuppa being official “representante” , which they surely we’re in terms of national LCN, they were not necessarily the top of the pecking order in the Chicago Outfit.

I truly believe that the final word, which they didn’t always choose to exercise, has always landed with one of the men in this small group…

Al Capone - 1925 -32ish

Paul Ricca- Mid 30’s until 1972.

Tony Accardo - 1972-1992

Difronzo- 1997- until 2013ish

??????? 2013 -today (It is quite possible Joe Andriacchi still holds the role)


Read between the lines on all the LE documents you can get your hands on, as well as newspaper articles (as many of you do) and you may come to the the same conclusion

Re: Is Chicago Mob’s Famous Family Secrets Case On Verge Of A Reopening? Miceli Makes It In Front Of Federal Judge In Qu

by B. » Mon Aug 08, 2022 8:49 pm

I think people confuse street boss with acting boss. Acting boss is a formal rank, just not an official one, but street boss is a functional role and not part of the formal hierarchy. In various Families it refers to a top guy, often a captain, who helps guide the day-to-day operations of the Family on behalf of the admin. Sometimes this means making decisions but often it's sort of a high-level messenger / middleman.

Re: Is Chicago Mob’s Famous Family Secrets Case On Verge Of A Reopening? Miceli Makes It In Front Of Federal Judge In Qu

by Coloboy » Mon Aug 08, 2022 8:38 pm

There are some really interesting topics in this discussion.

Much of the back-and-forth is driven by our lack of understanding of the “street boss” role, what it was, who held it, what its purpose was. If it existed in the form that most here speculate, I think the job would have suited Joey Lombardo very well, and it is quite possible he was the guy designated to communicating the top admins orders and enforcing them across crews.

I also believe it is very possible that if Ferriolla had this role in the mid to late 80’s, it was the major contributor to confusion when LE incorrectly identified him as the boss boss, I.E Aiuppas replacement. One could imagine an informant hearing the word “street boss “and relaying what they thought that might mean incorrectly

Re: Is Chicago Mob’s Famous Family Secrets Case On Verge Of A Reopening? Miceli Makes It In Front Of Federal Judge In Qu

by Antiliar » Mon Aug 08, 2022 1:31 pm

Okay, I'll respond a little bit.

- Yes, he does block people, but that's his right. Maybe he feels he's too old for the crap people sometimes throw at him. I like to debate, but when people troll it's often just a waste of time. I'm sure he gets lots of trolls.

- There isn't enough information to debate his service in Vietnam. He didn't write about it in his book. He only wrote when he enlisted and was discharged, and he provided a photo in his book. So neither one of us knows what he did during the period of his enlistment. A lot of combat veterans don't like to discuss their experiences until they feel ready to do so on their terms.

- As for him being gay, that sounds like guilt by association. He's denied that in the past and I think he's said that he's got a wife and kids, so I have no reason to believe it. Yes, some married men are secretly gay, but I would need some solid evidence before I'm convinced.

- Regarding Red telling Spilotro that he was snitching, that's his story. It does sound far-fetched, but I can't make a knee-jerk assumption that it's false without evidence. I'm agnostic on it. I neither believe nor do I automatically disbelieve it. It goes in the category of "Red claims he told Spilotro he was a snitch and Spilotro didn't care because it wasn't about him." Maybe since Red was targeting Frank Schweihs and Spilotro feared Schweihs he was glad to hear that Red is getting him off the street. I don't know, I'm just throwing that out as a possible explanation. Over the years I've heard far-fetched claims being disproven, but I've heard others that were confirmed to be true. Frank Calabrese Jr says his father told him that Accardo pulled the trigger on Giancana. Far-fetched? Yes. Impossible? No. Could it have happened? Yes. Did it happen? Don't know, can't verify. Some may think that the entire leadership of the Outfit killing the Spilotros is also far-fetched. Do we know that it happened? No. Nick Calabrese testified to it, so most of us believe him, but it's *possible* that he lied on the stand. Again, we weren't there, so we will never know for certain one or the other. This is my reasoning, but we're free to disagree.

Re: Is Chicago Mob’s Famous Family Secrets Case On Verge Of A Reopening? Miceli Makes It In Front Of Federal Judge In Qu

by Patrickgold » Mon Aug 08, 2022 11:04 am

Antiliar wrote: Sun Aug 07, 2022 9:43 pm
Patrickgold wrote: Sun Aug 07, 2022 1:10 pm I will say this about Red. I think he is obsessed with himself and I think he is untruthful is some instances. He does give good info but I do feel like since he’s trying to make money talking about the Outfit now, he might be making claims that are not true.

Some instances where he was untruthful:
He knew about those kids that were killed and claimed he told the feds in the early 70s. He very well might of but why didn’t he tell local authorities or someone else if he really gave a shit. He didn’t for a variety of reasons the number being that he is gay. He is obviously gay but is still in the closet it seems and seems to be in denial. He also claims he was in Vietnam and I heard his story and it sounded like bullshit. I would love to see his DD214. I was in the military so can usually sniff out the stolen valor claims that so many people do. He said Marshall Caifano had a gay lover in prisoner when I’m not sure he would have any proof since he obviously didn’t serve time with him. And let’s not forget his story that Tony Spilotro knew he was a informant and didn’t do anything. Everyone knows that is bullshit. Tony would have personally have killed him if he knew.
Wow. That's a pretty harsh assessment. Seems like your mind is made up, so I won't debate you on it.
Don’t get me wrong, I think he does bring some good info to the table from his personal experience considering he was involved with the outfit but I found his pettiness to be a little extreme. He will block you on Facebook if you have even a tiny disagreement with him which I find strange. Also, as I said before I think some of the lies help discredit him like him now claiming he saw heavy combat in Vietnam despite never saying it before or him trying to push his friendship with Tony Spilotro a little to far by saying Tony knew he was a CI and did nothing because he liked him so much.

Re: Is Chicago Mob’s Famous Family Secrets Case On Verge Of A Reopening? Miceli Makes It In Front Of Federal Judge In Qu

by Antiliar » Sun Aug 07, 2022 9:43 pm

Patrickgold wrote: Sun Aug 07, 2022 1:10 pm I will say this about Red. I think he is obsessed with himself and I think he is untruthful is some instances. He does give good info but I do feel like since he’s trying to make money talking about the Outfit now, he might be making claims that are not true.

Some instances where he was untruthful:
He knew about those kids that were killed and claimed he told the feds in the early 70s. He very well might of but why didn’t he tell local authorities or someone else if he really gave a shit. He didn’t for a variety of reasons the number being that he is gay. He is obviously gay but is still in the closet it seems and seems to be in denial. He also claims he was in Vietnam and I heard his story and it sounded like bullshit. I would love to see his DD214. I was in the military so can usually sniff out the stolen valor claims that so many people do. He said Marshall Caifano had a gay lover in prisoner when I’m not sure he would have any proof since he obviously didn’t serve time with him. And let’s not forget his story that Tony Spilotro knew he was a informant and didn’t do anything. Everyone knows that is bullshit. Tony would have personally have killed him if he knew.
Wow. That's a pretty harsh assessment. Seems like your mind is made up, so I won't debate you on it.

Re: Is Chicago Mob’s Famous Family Secrets Case On Verge Of A Reopening? Miceli Makes It In Front Of Federal Judge In Qu

by Tonyd621 » Sun Aug 07, 2022 6:44 pm

Patrickgold wrote: Sun Aug 07, 2022 1:10 pm I will say this about Red. I think he is obsessed with himself and I think he is untruthful is some instances. He does give good info but I do feel like since he’s trying to make money talking about the Outfit now, he might be making claims that are not true.

Some instances where he was untruthful:
He knew about those kids that were killed and claimed he told the feds in the early 70s. He very well might of but why didn’t he tell local authorities or someone else if he really gave a shit. He didn’t for a variety of reasons the number being that he is gay. He is obviously gay but is still in the closet it seems and seems to be in denial. He also claims he was in Vietnam and I heard his story and it sounded like bullshit. I would love to see his DD214. I was in the military so can usually sniff out the stolen valor claims that so many people do. He said Marshall Caifano had a gay lover in prisoner when I’m not sure he would have any proof since he obviously didn’t serve time with him. And let’s not forget his story that Tony Spilotro knew he was a informant and didn’t do anything. Everyone knows that is bullshit. Tony would have personally have killed him if he knew.
Red was in vietnam? Yeah sure. And women in the infantry didn't change any either. Sarcasm.

Re: Is Chicago Mob’s Famous Family Secrets Case On Verge Of A Reopening? Miceli Makes It In Front Of Federal Judge In Qu

by Patrickgold » Sun Aug 07, 2022 1:10 pm

I will say this about Red. I think he is obsessed with himself and I think he is untruthful is some instances. He does give good info but I do feel like since he’s trying to make money talking about the Outfit now, he might be making claims that are not true.

Some instances where he was untruthful:
He knew about those kids that were killed and claimed he told the feds in the early 70s. He very well might of but why didn’t he tell local authorities or someone else if he really gave a shit. He didn’t for a variety of reasons the number being that he is gay. He is obviously gay but is still in the closet it seems and seems to be in denial. He also claims he was in Vietnam and I heard his story and it sounded like bullshit. I would love to see his DD214. I was in the military so can usually sniff out the stolen valor claims that so many people do. He said Marshall Caifano had a gay lover in prisoner when I’m not sure he would have any proof since he obviously didn’t serve time with him. And let’s not forget his story that Tony Spilotro knew he was a informant and didn’t do anything. Everyone knows that is bullshit. Tony would have personally have killed him if he knew.

Re: Is Chicago Mob’s Famous Family Secrets Case On Verge Of A Reopening? Miceli Makes It In Front Of Federal Judge In Qu

by Antiliar » Sun Aug 07, 2022 11:13 am

Pete wrote: Sun Aug 07, 2022 9:50 am
Glad we’re in agreement on miceli. To me it sounds like red is confused but we can agree to disagree. I am not sure why you are taking every thing he says hook line and sinker. There is absolutely no precedent for a capo aka crew boss aka street boss going over the actual boss head on a murder contract. Do you have instances of this happening in the past? If so please provide I would be interested to see that. That reasoning just makes no sense based on the structure and order of command but definitely believe whatever you like
I don't take everything he says "hook, line and sinker." I think he honestly and sincerely believes what he says, even if it's not always accurate. So my point is that I don't think he's lying as opposed to being confused on some facts, misremembering or being mistaken.

As for a capo going over the acting boss's head to the actual boss, your argument is an argument from silence. The wiretap evidence we have represents a tiny drop in what took place, so to assert that it didn't happen because we didn't have evidence is irrational. What we do have is an example of a high-ranking associate (Humphreys) appealing to Paul Ricca and going over Giancana's and Accardo's heads, and the direct appeal to Accardo by Bill Roemer to cancel a potential hit on Bernie Glickman. The second example is pretty close to the example you're asking for. Aside from that, I don't see what the issue is since capos often sit on panels that advise the bosses. Why wouldn't a boss hear out one of his captains, people who he put in leadership positions and who have his trust?

Re: Is Chicago Mob’s Famous Family Secrets Case On Verge Of A Reopening? Miceli Makes It In Front Of Federal Judge In Qu

by Pete » Sun Aug 07, 2022 9:50 am

Antiliar wrote: Sat Aug 06, 2022 8:38 pm
Pete wrote: Sat Aug 06, 2022 6:06 pm
That article is a bunch of nonsense by a reporter who knows nothing. Obviously Nick was mistaken about infelise being there you had a guy recalling something from 30 years earlier with quite a few people in the house.

Sure he didn’t remember the exact house. If I pick you up and take you somewhere you’ve never been before then drop you back off at home would you be able to pick out that house 30 years later?

Pat didn’t contradict nicks testimony. Nick clearly said he was dropped off by marcello and then marcello left to pick up the spilotros and came back.

Nick said fecarotta drove him instead of marcello to protect him because marcello was taking care of his family…. I could go on if You like but I’m guessing you know all this stuff that I’m saying. I’m not sure if you believe this stuff or your just playing devils advocate here as you seem to be a believer in this miceli
Go read my first comment in this thread if you think I'm a believer in Chuck Miceli. The idea that anyone would think I would give him any credence makes me laugh.
Pete wrote: Sat Aug 06, 2022 5:58 pm
I wouldn’t say anything precludes him necessarily he was certainly qualified but I would find it very hard to believe that this is the first anyones heard about Lombardo being street boss in that time frame. I’ve done quite a bit of research over the years and have never once heard anything to that effect. While I suppose it could be possible it flies in the face of what most of us understand to be the way things went at that time.

And in regards to Lombardo being able to go over aiuppas head and stop the spilotros from getting killed let’s not forget Joey’s own words to pat spilotro. “Doc you get an order you follow it, if you don’t you go too” that doesn’t sound like someone that could overrule aiuppa that sounds like someone who realizes if they tried they would be dead as well.
Yes, it's new to us that Lombardo was the street boss, but the Outfit has been a learning process for all of us. Plus we don't know exactly what is meant by "street boss." Wemette may have had one understanding and Lombardo or whomever told him may have had a different one. It could have just been added responsibilities and it could have been an informal term.

There's also no contradiction with what Lombardo said, "you get an order you follow it," and appealing to the highest authority.
Glad we’re in agreement on miceli. To me it sounds like red is confused but we can agree to disagree. I am not sure why you are taking every thing he says hook line and sinker. There is absolutely no precedent for a capo aka crew boss aka street boss going over the actual boss head on a murder contract. Do you have instances of this happening in the past? If so please provide I would be interested to see that. That reasoning just makes no sense based on the structure and order of command but definitely believe whatever you like

Re: Is Chicago Mob’s Famous Family Secrets Case On Verge Of A Reopening? Miceli Makes It In Front Of Federal Judge In Qu

by Antiliar » Sat Aug 06, 2022 8:38 pm

Pete wrote: Sat Aug 06, 2022 6:06 pm
That article is a bunch of nonsense by a reporter who knows nothing. Obviously Nick was mistaken about infelise being there you had a guy recalling something from 30 years earlier with quite a few people in the house.

Sure he didn’t remember the exact house. If I pick you up and take you somewhere you’ve never been before then drop you back off at home would you be able to pick out that house 30 years later?

Pat didn’t contradict nicks testimony. Nick clearly said he was dropped off by marcello and then marcello left to pick up the spilotros and came back.

Nick said fecarotta drove him instead of marcello to protect him because marcello was taking care of his family…. I could go on if You like but I’m guessing you know all this stuff that I’m saying. I’m not sure if you believe this stuff or your just playing devils advocate here as you seem to be a believer in this miceli
Go read my first comment in this thread if you think I'm a believer in Chuck Miceli. The idea that anyone would think I would give him any credence makes me laugh.
Pete wrote: Sat Aug 06, 2022 5:58 pm
I wouldn’t say anything precludes him necessarily he was certainly qualified but I would find it very hard to believe that this is the first anyones heard about Lombardo being street boss in that time frame. I’ve done quite a bit of research over the years and have never once heard anything to that effect. While I suppose it could be possible it flies in the face of what most of us understand to be the way things went at that time.

And in regards to Lombardo being able to go over aiuppas head and stop the spilotros from getting killed let’s not forget Joey’s own words to pat spilotro. “Doc you get an order you follow it, if you don’t you go too” that doesn’t sound like someone that could overrule aiuppa that sounds like someone who realizes if they tried they would be dead as well.
Yes, it's new to us that Lombardo was the street boss, but the Outfit has been a learning process for all of us. Plus we don't know exactly what is meant by "street boss." Wemette may have had one understanding and Lombardo or whomever told him may have had a different one. It could have just been added responsibilities and it could have been an informal term.

There's also no contradiction with what Lombardo said, "you get an order you follow it," and appealing to the highest authority.

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