THE BLACK HAND FORUM

Came up with a little chart to visualise the information:

chin_gigante wrote: ↑Sun Jul 10, 2022 1:22 pm

Pogo The Clown wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 7:13 pm

chin_gigante wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 5:21 pm I'm also curious about how long Langella retained the official Underboss position while incarcerated. John Franzese was being introduced as the official Underboss around 2004 IIRC so was it then? Maybe gohn has some insight on this.

Didn't Cutolo and DeRoss hold the Official position inbetween Langella and Franzese or were they just Acting?


Pogo

Campanella testified that Cutolo was Acting Underboss at the time of his murder

Thanks. Looking over my notes DeRoss was still Acting into 2000 so he probably remained so at the time of his inprisonment in April 2001.


Pogo

Is it known who led the crew of Cutolo while he was an Underboss in the 80s?

Pogo The Clown wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 7:13 pm

chin_gigante wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 5:21 pm I'm also curious about how long Langella retained the official Underboss position while incarcerated. John Franzese was being introduced as the official Underboss around 2004 IIRC so was it then? Maybe gohn has some insight on this.

Didn't Cutolo and DeRoss hold the Official position inbetween Langella and Franzese or were they just Acting?


Pogo

Campanella testified that Cutolo was Acting Underboss at the time of his murder

chin_gigante wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 5:21 pm In his book on the Colombo Family, Andy Petepiece identifies Andrew Russo as the Acting Boss from 1984 to 1985.

Looked into this a little more and consulted my copy of Blood Covenant. Franzese states that Andrew Russo was Acting Boss at the time of the infamous sit down when he and his father were interrogated about the gas business and he thought he'd be killed. The event happened towards the end of Franzese's loan sharking trial which ended in April 1985. He specifically states, "I expected Acting Boss Andrew Russo (Persico was in jail) and the entire family hierarchy to be sitting around a table."

So it seems this is accurate and Russo did indeed serve as Acting Boss starting probably in late 1984 (when Persico went on the lam) or early 1985 (when Persico was arrested). Langella was out on bail until February 1985, so perhaps he was still running things despite being under indictment.

Great work chin

so vic orena goes into jail 4/92 and joe scope is murderd 10/13. so im assumming scopo was running the show or him and wild bill for those 18months

chin_gigante wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 5:21 pm I'm also curious about how long Langella retained the official Underboss position while incarcerated. John Franzese was being introduced as the official Underboss around 2004 IIRC so was it then? Maybe gohn has some insight on this.

Didn't Cutolo and DeRoss hold the Official position inbetween Langella and Franzese or were they just Acting?


Pogo

Mike Franzese has said Andy Russo was acting boss for Tom DiBella in the late 1970s so that may be what Capeci referred to.

I'm curious about that period from 1985 to 1986 when the entire administration is indisposed (C Persico and Langella in prison, A Persico on the lam). Couldn't find solid information on who was running things on the street. There's a bit of a jump in the Scarpa files on the FBI Vault from 1983 to 1985. In his book on the Colombo Family, Andy Petepiece identifies Andrew Russo as the Acting Boss from 1984 to 1985, however Petepiece makes quite a lot of mistakes and I don't know what his source is for that specific piece of information. When Capeci reported that Russo had taken the reins after the death of Persico (then believing him to be the Acting Boss), he stated it was Russo's third or possibly fourth time in the role. If it was third, then that would include the mid-90s, 2010-2011, and then again after Persico. But if it was four then that leaves the possibility of a stint in the 1980s. But then again, I don't know what Capeci was referring to specifically or if he was just looking at Petepiece's work.

I'm also curious about how long Langella retained the official Underboss position while incarcerated. John Franzese was being introduced as the official Underboss around 2004 IIRC so was it then? Maybe gohn has some insight on this.

On another note, it is quite strange just how many admin members went on the lam over the course of the decade and a bit.

Great breakdown.

A detail often overlooked after the war is that Allie Persico was promoted back to capodecina after his release from prison with Bill Cutolo, Jackie DeRoss, and others as soldiers in his crew as part of a peace arrangement.

In 1998 Allie Persico went around campaigning for the other four Families to recognize his father as official boss again. Peter Gotti balked but Michael DiLeonardo pushed him to recognize Carmine, which he eventually did.

When the other Families confirmed their recognition of Carmine Persico, Allie Persico became acting boss and Bill Cutolo became acting underboss.

1994-1998 things seem to be in disarray. You had Andy Russo, Tommy Gioeli, Joel Cacace, and Allie Persico helping run things but 1998 seems to be when they really started trying to put things back together with the support of the other Families.

Great job Chin.

crazy at the amount of years Alphonse Persico got for loansharking, the Government was really hammering down these wiseguys.

Amazing work, anyone has a link to this Starquest case?

This is amazing, thanks!