THE BLACK HAND FORUM

by **JoelTurner** » Thu Sep 19, 2024 3:51 pm

PolackTony wrote: ↑Thu Sep 12, 2024 1:21 pm
JoelTurner wrote: ↑Wed Sep 11, 2024 11:24 pm
PolackTony wrote: ↑Mon Jan 10, 2022 11:05 pm Alfonso Tornabene was born 1923 in Chicago to Carmelo Tornabene and Maria Carlisi, of Canicattì, Agrigento. Carmelo and Maria married in Orange, NJ in 1908 and later moved to Chicago.
Small correction: They actually married in Orange, NY per Alphonso’s naturalization papers. This was in Western New York, roughly 2 hrs from Buffalo.

This had piqued my interest; but upstate NY fits them better then North Jersey especially considering that their relatives moved there, as you pointed out.
Thanks for the comment. I can see why you'd think that, but Carmelo Tornabene and Maria Carlisi were, in fact, married in New Jersey in 1908. There were multiple versions of Carmelo's naturalization petition; while one, as you note here, read that he was married in "Orange, New York", the other version stated that he was married in "Orange, New Jersey". That the latter was the correct version is indicated by the fact that "Carmelo Tornabe" [sic] and "Maria Carlisa" [sic] were married in 1908 in NJ, per the NJ Marriage Index (the family later used the "Tornabe" version of their surname in a number of Chicago documents as well). While several relatives did wind up moving to Western NY, there is no indication that I have seen that Carmelo and Maria lived in that area. So far as I'm aware, they were in the NYC area for just a few years before relocating to Chicago by 1909.

Thank you for the correction

Do you know if they had any connections to people in the NYC/NJ area other than with Tornabe?

by **NorthBuffalo** » Thu Sep 19, 2024 7:57 am

NorthBuffalo wrote: ↑Thu Sep 19, 2024 7:44 am
PolackTony wrote: ↑Thu Sep 19, 2024 7:40 am
NorthBuffalo wrote: ↑Thu Sep 19, 2024 7:25 am A source told me that Vincent Inserro's son (Joey) died a suspicious death in the early 70s - does anyone have more on that? Sounds like quite a guy.
Joseph Vincent Inserro was 22 years old when he died in an auto accident in North Riverside in 1972. Joey Inserro was driving a motorcycle and had a head-on collision with a car driven by an elderly driver who was charged with negligent homicide and failure to yield. Inserro also had a passenger, a kid named Rob Traum, who was riding on the back of the bike and thrown in the collision but survived. Nothing about the incident seems suspicious to me.
Thanks for clearing that up - I can also now see the old news clippings with Traum's name. The guys I chat with and who send me some of these photos are all old guys who often confuse things or tell stories - I appreciate the ability to fact check them.

Actually this guy said he confused Inserro with Alderisio - Alderisio's son died in the early 70s of liver failure but many suspected he was poisoned as he never drank and was essentially being bullied by members of his fathers former crew before he died. This guy says that Alderisio, his wife and his son all died in a span of three years, which is quite odd if true.

by **NorthBuffalo** » Thu Sep 19, 2024 7:44 am

PolackTony wrote: ↑Thu Sep 19, 2024 7:40 am
NorthBuffalo wrote: ↑Thu Sep 19, 2024 7:25 am A source told me that Vincent Inserro's son (Joey) died a suspicious death in the early 70s - does anyone have more on that? Sounds like quite a guy.
Joseph Vincent Inserro was 22 years old when he died in an auto accident in North Riverside in 1972. Joey Inserro was driving a motorcycle and had a head-on collision with a car driven by an elderly driver who was charged with negligent homicide and failure to yield. Inserro also had a passenger, a kid named Rob Traum, who was riding on the back of the bike and thrown in the collision but survived. Nothing about the incident seems suspicious to me.

Thanks for clearing that up - I can also now see the old news clippings with Traum's name. The guys I chat with and who send me some of these photos are all old guys who often confuse things or tell stories - I appreciate the ability to fact check them.

by **PolackTony** » Thu Sep 19, 2024 7:40 am

NorthBuffalo wrote: ↑Thu Sep 19, 2024 7:25 am A source told me that Vincent Inserro's son (Joey) died a suspicious death in the early 70s - does anyone have more on that? Sounds like quite a guy.

Joseph Vincent Inserro was 22 years old when he died in an auto accident in North Riverside in 1972. Joey Inserro was driving a motorcycle and had a head-on collision with a car driven by an elderly driver who was charged with negligent homicide and failure to yield. Inserro also had a passenger, a kid named Rob Traum, who was riding on the back of the bike and thrown in the collision but survived. Nothing about the incident seems suspicious to me.

by **NorthBuffalo** » Thu Sep 19, 2024 7:25 am

A source told me that Vincent Inserro's son (Joey) died a suspicious death in the early 70s - does anyone have more on that? Sounds like quite a guy.

by **PolackTony** » Wed Sep 18, 2024 7:18 pm

B. wrote: ↑Wed Sep 18, 2024 5:31 pm Ah yeah, I do remember that coming up with the Inserros and Manocchio. They were well-connected like Tony said. The "Saint" nickname comes from the brother's original nickname "St. Louis" and "Little Saint Louis", where they came from. There is also an FBI report where an informant said the older brother Mariano "Joe Weasel" Inserro originally brought Vincent "into" the outfit which suggests he may have been made too. He worked as a trucker and as we know there were quite a few sleeper members who flew under the radar, especially among the Sicilians.

Their mother was from Caccamo and when I looked into them the father may have been from Termini, I'm sure Tony could say for sure. 100% Sicilian which fits them originally being connected in STL.

Mariano Inserro died in 1970 in Lake Forest. As you note, he was officially employed as a truck driver in the years prior to to his death, this was a hell of a place for a “truck driver” to be living (for those unfamiliar with Chicagoland, it would be like a truck driver owning a house in Beverly Hills). Also very interesting to note that as of 1940, Mariano Inserro was an employee of the Roma Macaroni Co., which I’ve brought up a number of times in various posts as it was owned by the Prestigiacomos of Bagheria and had a number of mafiiosi in its employ (not least of which, Totò LoVerde). Also interesting to note that Mariano Inserro’s first wife was Marianna Marsala (she died in 1937). She was born in Chicago to Francesco Marsala and Maria BonGiovanni, Little Sicily residents from Ficarazzi. I’ve mentioned before that there were mafia-connected BonGiovannis in Little Sicily from Ficarazzi.

And yes, I’m pretty certain that Giuseppe Inserra, the Inserro brothers’ father, was from Termini. While their mother, Grazia Peri, was from Cáccamo and legally married him in Joliet, when she arrived in the US she stated that her last residence was in Términi, so I would assume that the couple were already together before immigrating.

Grazia Peri was naturalized in Chicago in 1940. At this time, the Inserros were living at Chicago Ave and Hamilton in the Italian section of Humboldt Park. Notably, one of Grazia’s witnesses was Carmella Drago. No apparent relation to the Carlisis, she was born in Chicago to Antonino Drago and Rosa Taormina of Ribera. The Dragos lived at Beach and Spaulding in Humboldt Park. While in later decades this intersection became known as the “motherland” of the Almighty Latin Kings (founded in Humboldt Park in the 1950s, and which, according to old heads I knew as a kid, included a number of Italian members alongside the newly arrived Puerto Ricans in its first generation), more relevant here, it was also home at this time to the Dragos’ paesano, Jim DeGeorge. Carmella, who subsequently married Ugo Stefanelli, a “second wave” arrival after WW2 from Palazzo Adriano, had an older brother named Carlo Drago. Carlo married Isabella Monteleone, who was born in Chicago to parents from Sambuca. Her father, Salvatore Monteleone, may well have been related to the family of fellow Sambuca native Johnny Apes Monteleone.

Snakes wrote: ↑Wed Sep 18, 2024 5:53 pm Vince Inserro got made in the big '56 ceremony. Was also listed by the FBI as one of the two primary suspects in the Cain killing (other being Joe Lombardo).

Even by Chicago standards, Vincent Inserro had a very nasty reputation that belied his diminutive stature. I would imagine he got his hands dirty in a number of other murders that we don’t know about as well. B and I have discussed before how, apart from violently abusing his wife, he stabbed a construction worker to death in front of his home because he thought the guy had whistled at her.

by B. » Wed Sep 18, 2024 6:50 pm

He also stabbed a construction worker to death across the street from his house because he thought the guy was looking at his wife. Well-adjusted guy.

by **Snakes** » Wed Sep 18, 2024 5:53 pm

Vince Inserro got made in the big '56 ceremony. Was also listed by the FBI as one of the two primary suspects in the Cain killing (other being Joe Lombardo).

by B. » Wed Sep 18, 2024 5:31 pm

Ah yeah, I do remember that coming up with the Inserros and Manocchio. They were well-connected like Tony said. The "Saint" nickname comes from the brother's original nickname "St. Louis" and "Little Saint Louis", where they came from. There is also an FBI report where an informant said the older brother Mariano "Joe Weasel" Inserro originally brought Vincent "into" the outfit which suggests he may have been made too. He worked as a trucker and as we know there were quite a few sleeper members who flew under the radar, especially among the Sicilians.

Their mother was from Caccamo and when I looked into them the father may have been from Termini, I'm sure Tony could say for sure. 100% Sicilian which fits them originally being connected in STL.

by **PolackTony** » Wed Sep 18, 2024 3:39 pm

PolackTony wrote: ↑Thu Sep 12, 2024 2:35 pm Brother Alfonso Carlisi, born in 1913 in Chicago, was also involved. He used the alias "Al Drago" and operated lounges Al's Place and the Starlite in Cicero for years. In the 1960s, the FBI stated that Al Carlisi was a "key figure of the Chicago mob" in Cicero and a liaison between figures like Aiuppa and Buccieri and the Buffalo outfit. Al Carlisi died in 1989, living in suburban Berkeley, IL.

I just posted this on Al Carlisi a few days ago. As Snakes noted, however, he doesn’t appear in any later lists or anything and it’s possible that the Feds were inflating his importance or had confused his alleged role as a liaison to Buffalo with one played by Sam or Carmen.

NorthBuffalo wrote: ↑Wed Sep 18, 2024 10:06 am
B. wrote: ↑Tue Sep 17, 2024 8:06 pm The Carlisi-related Tornabenes were harboring Manocchio? Wow, if true I had no idea about that connection.
Apologies I confused Tornabene with Max Inserro who was harboring Manocchio and had connections to Providence - that was covered extensively already.

Correct. And the Inserros were also Aiuppa guys. This crew had connections to Midwest Families like KC and STL and to Eastern Families like Buffalo and NE. Then there are the ties between the Eboli/Ariola family in Melrose Park and the Genovese Ebolis; at least one FBI source stated that Louie Eboli had started out with Aiuppa, which I believe (though multiple crews had operations and interests in Melrose Park and adjacent suburbs in the 50s/60s and it’s not always clear which guys were actually assigned to which captain, a problem further complicated by the fact that such assignments could have also changed over time). And that’s just what we know, could well be other connections that we are as yet unaware of. The Aiuppa crew would seem to have been well-positioned in terms of connections nationally and this is a dimension that should be taken into account when considering Aiuppa’s path to becoming boss, I think (in addition to his seniority within the Chicago Family and tenure as a powerful capodecina locally, of course).

by **NorthBuffalo** » Wed Sep 18, 2024 10:06 am

B. wrote: ↑Tue Sep 17, 2024 8:06 pm The Carlisi-related Tornabenes were harboring Manocchio? Wow, if true I had no idea about that connection.

Apologies I confused Tornabene with Max Inserro who was harboring Manocchio and had connections to Providence - that was covered extensively already.

by **Snakes** » Wed Sep 18, 2024 5:31 am

NorthBuffalo wrote: ↑Tue Sep 17, 2024 6:51 pm
B. wrote: ↑Thu Sep 12, 2024 3:38 pm With the reference Snakes found to Sam Carlisi being a third generation boss, on one hand it could just mean he was a third generation member but we know "boss" can be interpreted fairly loosely and Chicago in particular used the literal translation of "capo" and referred to capidecine as bosses, so could indicate Giuseppe Carlisi was at least a high-ranking member. The "third generation" part is highly specific and indicates the source was told something rather than just speculating.
I would add the Tornabenes in Cicero were harboring Luigi Manocchio of Providence at one point in the 1960s - they clearly were known on east coast.

Is there any background on the third Carlisi brother (Alphonse)? I see he died in 1989 at the height of his brother's power in Chicago essentially.

As far as I could gather, he was pretty uninvolved. He seemed to be in bookmaking in the 60s but he doesn't show up anywhere after from what I've seen. An FBI file from the 80s lists Sam's family and doesn't even have Alphonse as an associate.

by B. » Tue Sep 17, 2024 8:06 pm

The Carlisi-related Tornabenes were harboring Manocchio? Wow, if true I had no idea about that connection.

by **NorthBuffalo** » Tue Sep 17, 2024 6:51 pm

B. wrote: ↑Thu Sep 12, 2024 3:38 pm With the reference Snakes found to Sam Carlisi being a third generation boss, on one hand it could just mean he was a third generation member but we know "boss" can be interpreted fairly loosely and Chicago in particular used the literal translation of "capo" and referred to capidecine as bosses, so could indicate Giuseppe Carlisi was at least a high-ranking member. The "third generation" part is highly specific and indicates the source was told something rather than just speculating.

I would add the Tornabenes in Cicero were harboring Luigi Manocchio of Providence at one point in the 1960s - they clearly were known on east coast.

Is there any background on the third Carlisi brother (Alphonse)? I see he died in 1989 at the height of his brother's power in Chicago essentially.

by **Antiliar** » Tue Sep 17, 2024 3:03 pm

Here's some notes I took of an interesting character a couple of years ago:

Scardina (Scardini), Giovanni (John) Battista – 26 (c1882-?) Lived at 96 Oak Street (1908), charged with killing Joseph Cancillo (Concillo) of 37 Gault Street, who was being extorted for $500. Cancillo was poor, but he had a wealthy uncle named Giuseppe Bruiscato, of 64 Milton Ave. Cancillo was killed in the saloon of Isadore Sorcit at 66 Milton Ave. Police arrested Nicholas Milio, who killed an Italian saloonkeeper (Gioacchino Alaria on Dec 24, 1907) in Portland, Oregon, and described as a gang leader; Antonio Cantagnatti, Louis Morelli, and Joseph Giovanni. Also arrested were Giuseppe Marino, 40, and his son Dominick Marino, 19, of 110 Gault Court. Scardina evaded capture. Wife: Rose. [A John Battista Scardina, born in Bagheria on Jan 1, 1889, was naturalized in Cook County in 1923 and lived at 1111 Townsend St, and 732 N Ridgeway Ave in 1918 with his wife Mary Aiello; in 1926 their son Sam Nunzio Scardino identified Tony Aiello as the killer of Antonio Spano.] Mariano Scardina (Feb 13, 1885, Bagheria-Nov 8, 1907), then 24, was killed in a drunken brawl on Nov 18, 1907, in a saloon at 69 Oak Street. He was the son of the proprietor. Giuseppe Tragna, 34, a laborer, confessed to stabbing him. His parents were Vincenzo Scardina Josephine Scordato (or Scarlata). Mariano Scardina’s brother Salvatore (Sam) was slain on May 20, 1917. He was a chauffeur and last drove a man and a woman to West 22nd Street and South Cicero Ave. His body was found in Riverside, IL.A Giovanni Scardina who arrived on April 14, 1904, matches the age (he was 21) and was destined for his uncle Filippo Balistreri in Chicago. He was from Trabia.

THE BLACK HAND FORUM

Chicago Outfit Places of Origin

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