THE BLACK HAND FORUM

by **Southshore88** » Tue Jun 07, 2022 1:51 pm

SonnyBlackstein wrote: ↑Tue Jun 07, 2022 10:49 am
TallGuy19 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 07, 2022 10:35 amThat goes back to my original point that Pennisi and Carrube basically got made because they're Italian and knew the right people. It's part of an overall decline in Cosa Nostra's talent pool and rackets.
Pennisi did not get made because he was Italian and knew some people.

Pennisi got made because he killed someone and did 17years.

Pennisi would've likely got made if this was the 70's too.
There are hundreds of examples of guys doing less and getting their button than Pennisi.

Pennisi had committed murder and stood up. There is
nothing more qualifying for entry into the mafia. That's it. End of story.

Being Italian and knowing people absolutely helped. If he killed someone and did 17 years but wasn’t Italian or didn’t know anyone - then he wouldn’t have been made.

It’s been discussed before that often times a member’s murder is often not just one offense, but a combination of multiple factors. The same can be said with getting made.

by **SonnyBlackstein** » Tue Jun 07, 2022 11:31 am

TallGuy19 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 07, 2022 11:13 am Gene Borello probably deserved it more than Pennisi.

We disagree.

by **Dave65827** » Tue Jun 07, 2022 11:19 am

In Borrellos book he does make it seem like the majority of his crimes where him doing shit Ronnie G explicitly told him not to do and his crew consisted of the Gotti kid and a ragtag group of queens teenagers

The way I see it Pennisi had childhood friends who where mobsters + italian + done time + somewhat trustworthy + the Genovese situation + the tension between the Bronx and Brooklyn = made man don’t see how some of you guys are surprised he got made with all this shit that was going on at the time

by **NothingNew44** » Tue Jun 07, 2022 11:14 am

SonnyBlackstein wrote: ↑Tue Jun 07, 2022 11:03 am
AntComello wrote: ↑Tue Jun 07, 2022 10:52 am He had no choice but to stand up. Who was he going to rat on? He killed his girls lover or whatever and I’m pretty sure he had no knowledge to drop on the feds that would have got him out of that jam. He had no choice but to sit for 17 years and he could barely do that (suicide attempt)
I see what you're saying, but he did his time like a man. In GP, no seg. Etc.
The mafia has no higher qualification than to commit murder and do your time. This is what Pennisi did. So my point, which is Pennisi was 100% qualified, is indisputable.

Historical familiarity and relationships help in most situations in any sector of life. So the DiBenedetto point is one aspect of the equation. If you separate the two circumstances of Pennisi’s past, each gives incredible credence to him being a desired commodity to individuals in that life. Doing significant time in prison goes a very long way in how you are perceived. Then add the fact that you did an actual murder to get sentenced to the time, you can see why he’d be seen as an asset.

by **TallGuy19** » Tue Jun 07, 2022 11:13 am

SonnyBlackstein wrote: ↑Tue Jun 07, 2022 11:05 am
TallGuy19 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 07, 2022 11:02 am This is true. And the proof is in the pudding. He did virtually nothing as a made guy (couldn't even bring himself to smack a guy around), then ran to the FBI because his dead grandma shook his house around.
If you don't think Pennisi was qualified to be inducted then nobody should be inducted.

You'd rather induct a 20yr old who ran a decent book than JP? Sure bud.

There are plenty of made guys out there running rackets and making money. Say what you will about him, but even Gene Borello probably deserved it more than Pennisi. The guy was a mob associate in every sense of the word. He was violent and routinely engaged in significant criminal activity, plus he had a crew under him.

by **SonnyBlackstein** » Tue Jun 07, 2022 11:05 am

TallGuy19 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 07, 2022 11:02 am This is true. And the proof is in the pudding. He did virtually nothing as a made guy (couldn't even bring himself to smack a guy around), then ran to the FBI because his dead grandma shook his house around.

If you don't think Pennisi was qualified to be inducted then nobody should be inducted.

You'd rather induct a 20yr old who ran a decent book than JP? Sure bud.

by **SonnyBlackstein** » Tue Jun 07, 2022 11:03 am

AntComello wrote: ↑Tue Jun 07, 2022 10:52 am He had no choice but to stand up. Who was he going to rat on? He killed his girls lover or whatever and I’m pretty sure he had no knowledge to drop on the feds that would have got him out of that jam. He had no choice but to sit for 17 years and he could barely do that (suicide attempt)

I see what you're saying, but he did his time like a man. In GP, no seg. Etc.
The mafia has no higher qualification than to commit murder and do your time. This is what Pennisi did. So my point, which is Pennisi was 100% qualified, is indisputable.

by **TallGuy19** » Tue Jun 07, 2022 11:02 am

AntComello wrote: ↑Tue Jun 07, 2022 10:52 am
SonnyBlackstein wrote: ↑Tue Jun 07, 2022 10:49 am
TallGuy19 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 07, 2022 10:35 amThat goes back to my original point that Pennisi and Carrube basically got made because they're Italian and knew the right people. It's part of an overall decline in Cosa Nostra's talent pool and rackets.
Pennisi did not get made because he was Italian and knew some people.

Pennisi got made because he killed someone and did 17years.

Pennisi would've likely got made if this was the 70's too.
There are hundreds of examples of guys doing less and getting their button than Pennisi.

Pennisi had committed murder and stood up. There is
nothing more qualifying for entry into the mafia. That's it. End of story.
He had no choice but to stand up. Who was he going to rat on? He killed his girls lover or whatever and I’m pretty sure he had no knowledge to drop on the feds that would have got him out of that jam. He had no choice but to sit for 17 years and he could barely do that (suicide attempt)

This is true. And the proof is in the pudding. He did virtually nothing as a made guy (couldn't even bring himself to smack a guy around), then ran to the FBI because his dead grandma shook his house around.

by **johnny_scootch** » Tue Jun 07, 2022 11:00 am

newera_212 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 06, 2022 2:57 pm Is it fair to say Carrube was kind of a bum? Or just simply not an active guy? I think that pizza place did pretty well before the whole beef about the L&B thing. Carrube's story is very, very interesting. It's actually kind of funny.

The guy managed to keep his distance for years and was pressured into being made? He had some businesses , but as an associate he wasn't coming around or kicking up, so they made him in order to get closer to whatever money he had? I feel like that's kind of what happened here just by reading what's in front of us. Who knows. Very strange.

Carrube was an associate for decades and should have stayed like that. Lovaglio was extorting him and pushing him around so he went to Simone Esposito for help. Esposito told him the only way he could help him was to propose him for membership but it would cost him 10k, reluctantly he went along with it and paid 5.

Seems like Esposito was probably on drugs looking to get cash anyway he could and ended up on the shelf.

by **AntComello** » Tue Jun 07, 2022 10:52 am

SonnyBlackstein wrote: ↑Tue Jun 07, 2022 10:49 am
TallGuy19 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 07, 2022 10:35 amThat goes back to my original point that Pennisi and Carrube basically got made because they're Italian and knew the right people. It's part of an overall decline in Cosa Nostra's talent pool and rackets.
Pennisi did not get made because he was Italian and knew some people.

Pennisi got made because he killed someone and did 17years.

Pennisi would've likely got made if this was the 70's too.
There are hundreds of examples of guys doing less and getting their button than Pennisi.

Pennisi had committed murder and stood up. There is
nothing more qualifying for entry into the mafia. That's it. End of story.

He had no choice but to stand up. Who was he going to rat on? He killed his girls lover or whatever and I’m pretty sure he had no knowledge to drop on the feds that would have got him out of that jam. He had no choice but to sit for 17 years and he could barely do that (suicide attempt)

by **SonnyBlackstein** » Tue Jun 07, 2022 10:49 am

TallGuy19 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 07, 2022 10:35 amThat goes back to my original point that Pennisi and Carrube basically got made because they're Italian and knew the right people. It's part of an overall decline in Cosa Nostra's talent pool and rackets.

Pennisi did not get made because he was Italian and knew some people.

Pennisi got made because he killed someone and did 17years.

Pennisi would've likely got made if this was the 70's too.
There are hundreds of examples of guys doing less and getting their button than Pennisi.

Pennisi had committed murder and stood up. There is
nothing more qualifying for entry into the mafia. That's it. End of story.

by **TallGuy19** » Tue Jun 07, 2022 10:35 am

JohnnyS wrote: ↑Tue Jun 07, 2022 10:11 am
TallGuy19 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 07, 2022 10:00 am
SonnyBlackstein wrote: ↑Tue Jun 07, 2022 9:35 am
nizarsoccer wrote: ↑Tue Jun 07, 2022 9:09 am Well it's hard to compare a pizza maker to a murderer and their journey towards partaking in organized crime.
Exactly.

All this Bullshit about how Pennisi wasnt qualified to get made. He killed someone, did 20 years and stood up.

If that doesnt qualify you for the mob, NOTHING does.
Killing someone over a girl qualifies you to get made? I would say being an earner and carrying out mob-sanctioned hits without getting caught would qualify you. Pennisi killed someone for the dumbest reason imaginable and did seventeen years for it. In my book you get points for staying out of the can.

Compare him to someone like Roy DeMeo, who struggled to get made despite being a huge earner and a proficient killer with a solid crew under him. Even after he forged an alliance with the Westies, Castellano still had to be talked into it by Gaggi. It just goes to show how much things have changed.
That was someone that was around in the 70s. The talent pool in LCN has shrunk a lot since then. Good luck finding a guy more 'qualified' than Pennisi who has links to LCN dating back decades, he was an associate with the Gambinos, did serious time and was childhood best friends with Vic Amuso's son in law. Pennisi was always going to get straightened out after he was released from jail. The only way he wasnt going to end up made is if he didnt want it.

That goes back to my original point that Pennisi and Carrube basically got made because they're Italian and knew the right people. It's part of an overall decline in Cosa Nostra's talent pool and rackets.

by **JohnnyS** » Tue Jun 07, 2022 10:11 am

TallGuy19 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 07, 2022 10:00 am
SonnyBlackstein wrote: ↑Tue Jun 07, 2022 9:35 am
nizarsoccer wrote: ↑Tue Jun 07, 2022 9:09 am Well it's hard to compare a pizza maker to a murderer and their journey towards partaking in organized crime.
Exactly.

All this Bullshit about how Pennisi wasnt qualified to get made. He killed someone, did 20 years and stood up.

If that doesnt qualify you for the mob, NOTHING does.
Killing someone over a girl qualifies you to get made? I would say being an earner and carrying out mob-sanctioned hits without getting caught would qualify you. Pennisi killed someone for the dumbest reason imaginable and did seventeen years for it. In my book you get points for staying out of the can.

Compare him to someone like Roy DeMeo, who struggled to get made despite being a huge earner and a proficient killer with a solid crew under him. Even after he forged an alliance with the Westies, Castellano still had to be talked into it by Gaggi. It just goes to show how much things have changed.

That was someone that was around in the 70s. The talent pool in LCN has shrunk a lot since then. Good luck finding a guy more 'qualified' than Pennisi who has links to LCN dating back decades, he was an associate with the Gambinos, did serious time and was childhood best friends with Vic Amuso's son in law. Pennisi was always going to get straightened out after he was released from jail. The only way he wasnt going to end up made is if he didnt want it.

by **TallGuy19** » Tue Jun 07, 2022 10:00 am

SonnyBlackstein wrote: ↑Tue Jun 07, 2022 9:35 am
nizarsoccer wrote: ↑Tue Jun 07, 2022 9:09 am Well it's hard to compare a pizza maker to a murderer and their journey towards partaking in organized crime.
Exactly.

All this Bullshit about how Pennisi wasnt qualified to get made. He killed someone, did 20 years and stood up.

If that doesnt qualify you for the mob, NOTHING does.

Killing someone over a girl qualifies you to get made? I would say being an earner and carrying out mob-sanctioned hits without getting caught would qualify you. Pennisi killed someone for the dumbest reason imaginable and did seventeen years for it. In my book you get points for staying out of the can.

Compare him to someone like Roy DeMeo, who struggled to get made despite being a huge earner and a proficient killer with a solid crew under him. Even after he forged an alliance with the Westies, Castellano still had to be talked into it by Gaggi. It just goes to show how much things have changed.

by **SonnyBlackstein** » Tue Jun 07, 2022 9:35 am

nizarsoccer wrote: ↑Tue Jun 07, 2022 9:09 am Well it's hard to compare a pizza maker to a murderer and their journey towards partaking in organized crime.

Exactly.

All this Bullshit about how Pennisi wasnt qualified to get made. He killed someone, did 20 years and stood up.

If that doesnt qualify you for the mob, NOTHING does.

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