THE BLACK HAND FORUM

by **Cheech** » Tue Jun 21, 2022 3:26 pm

The career of a bookmaker is much different today than in the past. And its why off shore still still rules.
They set the line. Everyone else follows them. CRIS or Pinny post and when they move everyone else does to.
Its all a bot. Last year CRIS posted an incorrect line and tons of books followed. Didnt bother to check and realize it was a bad line. They just auto followed…..

by **Cheech** » Tue Jun 21, 2022 3:21 pm

Its remarkable how everyone squares venmo. Lol. The new venmo bookies. Its all out in the open much more than ever. Ironically legalization did it. The spread is openly talked about now mainstream. Paypal. Venmo. Crypto. All used. Its pretty crazy but its true
Yes paypal will shut u down for pools. March madness etc.

People are making money off the sqaures now. Thats big belueve it or not. $100 squares and shit.

Newera knows what he is saying. All legit what he said

by **Wiseguy** » Tue Jun 21, 2022 1:42 pm

Found this interesting.

But the problem with DraftKings, some argue, is not so much that the company is breaking any rules, but rather a clear deadline for the company to reach profitability. Right now, the company isn’t expected to turn a positive EBITDA until at least 2025. Robins has talked about the costs of customer acquisitions that have proven steep in some markets, such as New York where an exorbitant tax is already slowing down the initial enthusiasm for the market.

One issue is that many big gamblers are still sticking with offshore. Some of the biggest bettors are still there, Robins reassured and argued that this may last for a while, although acknowledging that many rank-and-file bettors have already switched to the regulated market.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.gambli ... ion/%3famp

by **newera_212** » Wed Jun 08, 2022 8:19 am

^^ Yes if PayPal or Venmo get even a sniff of money being transferred for illegal gambling they will send the receiver a warning, and if it continues they will block the payments, or hold your money in purgatory and lock you out of your account.

This actually happens a lot to the lowest hanging fruit - people running March Madness pools and things like that. If Paypal sees a bunch of Friends and Family transactions come in with "March Madness", "Pool" or the Basketball emoji in the memo line - it's over. I think they've even started to send generic warnings around the time of March Madness to people as a reminder.

It's probably a little harder for them to categorize 'unmarked' payments in different amounts, but again if they are seeing you have a shitload of activity from the same people just one day a week (like my guy does), it could raise red flags. This isn't related to gambling at all, but I have a friend that was in eCommerce and had a legit web biz that essentially blew up overnight and PayPal held over $20K of payments for 6 months while he battled them.

This is why I question the effectiveness of my agent allowing people to settle up with online payment systems, but he's been doing it successfully for years so who knows. I do know he prefers to stagger larger amounts and prefers that different customers use different methods (i.e. one on Venmo, one on CashApp, one on Zelle, etc) . Cash is always going to be king I guess, despite what Crypto idiots say. I wouldn't like the idea of a company like Venmo being able to hold funds indefinitely when they see fit

by **CornerBoy** » Wed Jun 08, 2022 6:16 am

newera_212 wrote: ↑Tue May 31, 2022 2:38 pm
CabriniGreen wrote: ↑Mon May 30, 2022 9:03 pm

I don't know how smart this really is - I wonder how many other agents are doing the same thing. Zelle is a little bit more flexible and free, but someone like Venmo or PayPal could shut you down if there's a stream of random "friends and family" debits and credits, non stop, to your account - or even more suspicious,

a barrage of debits/credits one day a week (Tuesday is settle up day)

Never thought of that- you really think Venmo thinks of that? I'm sure the FEds give them "dangers of illegal gambling" chat when they get their license or whatvever

MY GUY NOW ONLY ACCEPTS PLAY FROM AGENTS BUT HE MAKES AN "EXCEPTION" FOR ME. HE KEPT TELLING ME AFTER KNOWING EA OTHER CASUALLY FOR 15 YEARS THAT HE WAS DOING ME FAVOR, FINALLY, I GOT SICK OF HIS FAGGY VOICE AND HE MADE IT DIFFICULT TO COLLECT ON PURPOSE. ITS VERY SIMPLE. I DO MY THING ONLINE THEN EXCHANGE CASH IF IT GOES OVER X AMOUNT. IM DONE WITH THIS JADROOL.

by **TommyNoto** » Sun Jun 05, 2022 3:29 pm

I was speaking specific to NJ gambling busts , none since NJ legalized to my knowledge. It’s so out in the open today and basically a new world

by **Wiseguy** » Sun Jun 05, 2022 8:07 am

TommyNoto wrote: ↑Sat Jun 04, 2022 3:20 pm To my knowledge since NJ legalized gambling I don’t think we have seen 1 gambling bust. That’s a huge recent turn of events. Those big round ups would just crush the whole crews earnings that could cause guys to flip /do time, lose your assets/ biz. When the Westside assoc Elvis gambling crew was busted , he paid every defendants bail and I think lawyer, no one ratted. No more worries about that and now guys can grow, out of state too FL NC DE. Huge $ to be had and there is almost nothing LE can do to stop it. Its possible they are releasing media stories on guys to hurt their legitimate business.

There is definitely a difference if you look at the bookmaking cases in the 4 years before and after the Supreme Court decision.

June 2014 - December 2014
A series of connected busts involving the Genovese family (Pagano, Capolongo, etc.). This was the last primarily sports betting bust that rounded up dozens of people in New York, New Jersey and Florida before the Supreme Court decision in 2018.

October 2014 - April 2016
Bookmaking is among the charges (also included loansharking, unlicensed check-cashing, etc.) in New Jersey against 14 people connected to the Genovese family (Tuzzo).

January 2015
7 people with Genovese ties charged in Queens with bookmaking.

July 2015
3 people charged in Brooklyn with bookmaking involving the Colombo family (DiMatteo).

April 2016
8 people, including Genovese associate Frank Nista, charged in Queens with bookmaking.

May 2016
6 people tied to the Lucchese family (Castelle) charged in Brooklyn with bookmaking.

July 2016
Bookmaking is among the charges against 22 people (connected to several NY families, including Paradiso) that was mainly a large-scale marijuana trafficking case.

December 2016
13 people connected to the Genovese family (DeMeo, Gaglio) indicted in Manhattan with bookmaking.

March 2017
Bookmaking is among the charges (also included loansharking, drug trafficking, robbery, etc.) in Queens against 10 people tied to the Bonanno family (Giallanzo).

December 2017
Bookmaking is among the charges (also included card games, video poker, drug trafficking) against 7 people tied to the Gambino and Bonanno families (Ambrosio, Salerno) on Long Island.

January 2018
Bookmaking is among the charges (also included extortion in the C&D trucking industry, loansharking, etc) against 13 people tied to the Bonanno, Genovese, and Lucchese families (Cammarano, Zancocchio, Sabella, Montevecchi, Castelle, etc.) on Staten Island.

March 2018
13 people tied to the Lucchese family (Capelli) charged with bookmaking and loansharking in Westchester.

May 2018 - Supreme Court strikes down the Professional and Amateur Sports Protection Act, allowing states to legalize sports betting

July 2018
5 people tied to the Colombo family (Ciauri, DiFalco) charged with bookmaking, video poker, loansharking, etc. in Brooklyn and Staten Island.

January 2019
3 people, including Genovese associate John Andriello, charged with bookmaking in Rockland County.

October 2019
Bookmaking among the charges (also included card games, stolen goods, marijuana distribution, etc.) against 20 people to the Colombo family (Amato) on Staten Island.

December 2019
6 people tied to the Bonanno family (Sclafani) charged with bookmaking in Brooklyn.

January 2022
2 people, including Genovese associate John Porcello, indicted in the Eastern District for bookmaking and loansharking.

April 2022
6 people tied to the Genovese family (Balsamo, Calisi, etc.) charged in the Southern District with bookmaking and loansharking.

by **TommyNoto** » Sat Jun 04, 2022 3:20 pm

To my knowledge since NJ legalized gambling I don’t think we have seen 1 gambling bust. That’s a huge recent turn of events. Those big round ups would just crush the whole crews earnings that could cause guys to flip /do time, lose your assets/ biz. When the Westside assoc Elvis gambling crew was busted , he paid every defendants bail and I think lawyer, no one ratted. No more worries about that and now guys can grow, out of state too FL NC DE. Huge $ to be had and there is almost nothing LE can do to stop it. Its possible they are releasing media stories on guys to hurt their legitimate business.

by **Wiseguy** » Sat Jun 04, 2022 8:03 am

rphillips wrote: ↑Sat Jun 04, 2022 5:02 am what is nthe advantage of operating offf shore bookmaking ? you still have to have som1 local do collections payouts

Less visible than the old wire rooms where law enforcement could bust down the door. Harder for law enforcement to shut down. When there is a bust, and the site gets shutdown, they can be up and running with new passwords issued relatively soon. Doing it through credit cards or something like Venmo would more traceable and put the bookies at the mercy of those companies, who would want to shut down any illegal activity.

by **NewEnglandHere** » Sat Jun 04, 2022 5:02 am

what is nthe advantage of operating offf shore bookmaking ? you still have to have som1 local do collections payouts

by **miami_al** » Thu Jun 02, 2022 11:08 am

Hired_Goonz wrote: ↑Sun May 29, 2022 8:18 am Well if you play your cards right you could end up with a podcast.

A truly big laugh at this. Bravo!

by **Southshore88** » Tue May 31, 2022 10:04 pm

newera_212 wrote: ↑Tue May 31, 2022 2:38 pm
CabriniGreen wrote: ↑Mon May 30, 2022 9:03 pm
Are the bookies in NY, operating online gambling software based in say..... Costa Rica, but all the bets are from local people? Or do they take bets from say... Mike in Idaho? But then if so, how do they settle up? If it's all in person, and cash only?

I'm too simple to wrap my head around it... I need a breakdown... lol
Basically... but believe it or not, my "guy" (a lowly agent based in NY) settles up with me via Zelle, Venmo, CashApp, etc. -so neither of us have to leave the house. And, I know he services customers all over the country too although it might be people he personally knows that happened to have just moved out of NYC. I've never won or owed enough to break the daily transaction limit on Zelle, but if that were the case, he'd spread it out over a couple days. We could settle up in cash but it doesn't make sense for us to leave and meet up.

I don't know how smart this really is - I wonder how many other agents are doing the same thing. Zelle is a little bit more flexible and free, but someone like Venmo or PayPal could shut you down if there's a stream of random "friends and family" debits and credits, non stop, to your account - or even more suspicious, a barrage of debits/credits one day a week (Tuesday is settle up day)

So yeah you're basically right. Agents will give their 'local' customers a login to an offshore site that handles the actual bets, and will settle up personally once per week (or whatever they work out with the individual). It's anecdotal and based just off my experience... but agents are using money transfer apps instead of meeting everyone to settle up in cash.

I have a similar story with my guy NewEra. Me and my buddy use his guy, who he’s known since they were kids, way before we entered into the new business arrangement with him. Neither myself or my buddy don’t bet big anymore (different story when I was single). A slight different experience is that we only settle up whenever we've reached the figure we had our previously agreed to (either positive or negative).

Otherwise, he’s cool with rolling it week to week and settling up only at that figure - they go way back and I trust my buddy so neither of us are worried about squaring up with another. I don’t bet as heavy or frequently now so it’s a smaller % of disposable income anyways so it works for me too. I always do cash but our schedules don’t align often and doing different settle up strategies is probably a smart move on his part.

by **newera_212** » Tue May 31, 2022 2:38 pm

CabriniGreen wrote: ↑Mon May 30, 2022 9:03 pm
Are the bookies in NY, operating online gambling software based in say..... Costa Rica, but all the bets are from local people? Or do they take bets from say... Mike in Idaho? But then if so, how do they settle up? If it's all in person, and cash only?

I'm too simple to wrap my head around it... I need a breakdown... lol

Basically... but believe it or not, my "guy" (a lowly agent based in NY) settles up with me via Zelle, Venmo, CashApp, etc. -so neither of us have to leave the house. And, I know he services customers all over the country too although it might be people he personally knows that happened to have just moved out of NYC. I've never won or owed enough to break the daily transaction limit on Zelle, but if that were the case, he'd spread it out over a couple days. We could settle up in cash but it doesn't make sense for us to leave and meet up.

I don't know how smart this really is - I wonder how many other agents are doing the same thing. Zelle is a little bit more flexible and free, but someone like Venmo or PayPal could shut you down if there's a stream of random "friends and family" debits and credits, non stop, to your account - or even more suspicious, a barrage of debits/credits one day a week (Tuesday is settle up day)

So yeah you're basically right. Agents will give their 'local' customers a login to an offshore site that handles the actual bets, and will settle up personally once per week (or whatever they work out with the individual). It's anecdotal and based just off my experience... but agents are using money transfer apps instead of meeting everyone to settle up in cash.

by **BlackDow** » Tue May 31, 2022 2:05 pm

Wiseguy wrote: ↑Mon May 30, 2022 8:49 pm
BlackDow wrote: ↑Mon May 30, 2022 3:51 pm Legal regulated bookies will limit successful punters. Do the mob do this?
If you mean bettors that keep winning, I've read the bookie will sometimes insist the bettor share any information he may have about his picks.

A regular bookie will limit what bets you can place. I’m in the UK and if you win more than x amount a month you get ‘gubbed’ and can only place small bets. I’d share my info if I got to play no problem.

by **moneyman** » Tue May 31, 2022 10:26 am

For construction it seems like payoffs to avoid regulations, bid rigging to get preferred vendors at job sites and overinflating invoices when they can.

THE BLACK HAND FORUM

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