Caporegime vs. Capodecina

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Expand view Topic review: Caporegime vs. Capodecina

Re: Caporegime vs. Capodecina

by Wiseguy » Thu Dec 17, 2015 8:37 pm

JCB1977 wrote:Store owners have nothing to fear with today's mobsters. Protecting the neighborhood doesn't happen anymore. These guys today are hurting for rackets and other money making schemes. Store owners today go to the FBI.
Generally I think that's true, especially compared to the past, but we haven't seen the mob protection shakedown completely go away. As we saw in New England a few years ago, the mob was extorting several strip clubs in Providence. There's also been cases in NY over the last 10 or 15 years

Re: Caporegime vs. Capodecina

by B. » Thu Dec 17, 2015 12:58 pm

JCB1977 wrote:
B. wrote:That's the thing. Someone could be "on record" with someone regardless of their level of involvement with the family or crimes. A legitimate store owner who is friends with a certain member might be "with" that member should the need ever arise, but he doesn't report to that member in the same way a member of his street crew would.
Store owners have nothing to fear with today's mobsters. Protecting the neighborhood doesn't happen anymore. These guys today are hurting for rackets and other money making schemes. Store owners today go to the FBI.
Oh I didn't mean so much with extortion / street tax, but in the sense that a store owner (just one example) might want help getting hooked up with a certain business opportunity or distributor and may use friends in the mob to "network'. I believe this still happens, it's just that most of it isn't explicitly criminal in nature.

Re: Caporegime vs. Capodecina

by JCB1977 » Thu Dec 17, 2015 12:50 pm

B. wrote:That's the thing. Someone could be "on record" with someone regardless of their level of involvement with the family or crimes. A legitimate store owner who is friends with a certain member might be "with" that member should the need ever arise, but he doesn't report to that member in the same way a member of his street crew would.
Store owners have nothing to fear with today's mobsters. Protecting the neighborhood doesn't happen anymore. These guys today are hurting for rackets and other money making schemes. Store owners today go to the FBI.

Re: Caporegime vs. Capodecina

by toto » Thu Dec 17, 2015 12:44 pm

Chris Christie wrote:
bronx wrote:Chris you are right on the the term "friend" when someone who made speaks to another made guy, if he refers to a made guy ..he says "friend of ours". if he is speaking about a non made guy he says he is a friend of mine..that simple. hope that helps some posters
Pertaining to Italy I read that "Stessa cosa" (same thing) was used. But this comes from books.
This is correct.

Re: Caporegime vs. Capodecina

by B. » Wed Dec 16, 2015 11:04 pm

That's the thing. Someone could be "on record" with someone regardless of their level of involvement with the family or crimes. A legitimate store owner who is friends with a certain member might be "with" that member should the need ever arise, but he doesn't report to that member in the same way a member of his street crew would.

Re: Caporegime vs. Capodecina

by bronx » Wed Dec 16, 2015 7:34 pm

Pogo The Clown wrote:
bronx wrote:Chris you are right on the the term "friend" when someone who made speaks to another made guy, if he refers to a made guy ..he says "friend of ours". if he is speaking about a non made guy he says he is a friend of mine..that simple. hope that helps some posters

When I introduce you, I'm gonna say, "This is a friend of mine." That means you're a connected guy. If I said instead, "This is a friend of ours," that would mean you're a made guy. Capisce?

friend of mine could be a barber, or non associate also.
Pogo

Re: Caporegime vs. Capodecina

by Angelo Santino » Wed Dec 16, 2015 7:32 pm

bronx wrote:Chris you are right on the the term "friend" when someone who made speaks to another made guy, if he refers to a made guy ..he says "friend of ours". if he is speaking about a non made guy he says he is a friend of mine..that simple. hope that helps some posters
Pertaining to Italy I read that "Stessa cosa" (same thing) was used. But this comes from books.

Re: Caporegime vs. Capodecina

by Pogo The Clown » Wed Dec 16, 2015 7:05 pm

bronx wrote:Chris you are right on the the term "friend" when someone who made speaks to another made guy, if he refers to a made guy ..he says "friend of ours". if he is speaking about a non made guy he says he is a friend of mine..that simple. hope that helps some posters

When I introduce you, I'm gonna say, "This is a friend of mine." That means you're a connected guy. If I said instead, "This is a friend of ours," that would mean you're a made guy. Capisce?


Pogo

Re: Caporegime vs. Capodecina

by bronx » Wed Dec 16, 2015 6:48 pm

Chris you are right on the the term "friend" when someone who made speaks to another made guy, if he refers to a made guy ..he says "friend of ours". if he is speaking about a non made guy he says he is a friend of mine..that simple. hope that helps some posters

Re: Caporegime vs. Capodecina

by Angelo Santino » Wed Dec 16, 2015 6:11 pm

Dwalin2014 wrote:
B. wrote: Associate
Did the traditional Sicilian organization ever actually refer to anyone as an "associato"? Associate sounds like a purely criminal term, i.e. "criminal associates". I have a hard time seeing a traditional mafioso referring to people in his hometown as "associati" but what do I know? My guess is that the whole "associate" system in the US is radically different than whatever it was in Sicily. I don't doubt that they had a system with similar guidelines, I just have to believe it was much different and had different terminology. There was probably a greater emphasis on being "with" someone rather than calling them a particular word.
In an Italian book I have about the mafia in the province of Agrigento, the informant Pasquale Salemi uses the term "avvicinato" (literally translated as "situated nearby" or "brought nearby"; "vicino" means "near").
Associaties in our vernacular. Members like Gentile used "associates" in a broad sense: New York City had over 2000 associated with the mafia.

In Italy, "Friends of Friends" has a usage. "You don't want to do that here, the owner is friends of Friends." If the owner knew someone personally or/and was sending money/tribute to I don't know.

Re: Caporegime vs. Capodecina

by Dwalin2014 » Wed Dec 16, 2015 5:24 pm

B. wrote: Associate
Did the traditional Sicilian organization ever actually refer to anyone as an "associato"? Associate sounds like a purely criminal term, i.e. "criminal associates". I have a hard time seeing a traditional mafioso referring to people in his hometown as "associati" but what do I know? My guess is that the whole "associate" system in the US is radically different than whatever it was in Sicily. I don't doubt that they had a system with similar guidelines, I just have to believe it was much different and had different terminology. There was probably a greater emphasis on being "with" someone rather than calling them a particular word.
In an Italian book I have about the mafia in the province of Agrigento, the informant Pasquale Salemi uses the term "avvicinato" (literally translated as "situated nearby" or "brought nearby"; "vicino" means "near").

Re: Caporegime vs. Capodecina

by B. » Tue Dec 15, 2015 4:55 pm

bronx wrote:correct, also soldier ,,is actually amico nostri
Yep, forgot that one. That's one of the universal ways they describe members of any rank, plus the Americanized "friend". Both of these are still in use.

Re: Caporegime vs. Capodecina

by B. » Tue Dec 15, 2015 4:51 pm

Chris Christie wrote:
B. wrote:As for Cosa Nostra... you're 100% right that "La Cosa Nostra" was never used by the mob itself until the FBI and media influenced the newer generations of guys (who barely understood Italian) to start saying it. The same can't be said for "Cosa Nostra" without the "La", though. Rocco Scafidi's info says that when he was inducted around 1950 he was told by his superiors that the organization was "mafia", then after he was shelved and reinstated in 1961, they told him it was called "Cosa Nostra" now. On the phone taps where Scafidi and Frank Monte are talking, they also refer to it as Cosa Nostra. Valachi also claimed it was called Cosa Nostra.
Interesting. Do you have any more info on that?
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.htm ... elPageId=6

There is one of the docs that mentions it. On that it says "La Cosa Nostra", but that may have been the influence of the transcriber, i.e. Scafidi said "Cosa Nostra" and the agent added "La" in front. You could argue that he was just telling the agents what they wanted to hear or they changed his info to suit their needs, but I'm not so sure.

I don't have time to find it right now but there is definitely another transcript on the MF site where Monte and Scafidi refer to it simply as "Cosa Nostra".

Re: Caporegime vs. Capodecina

by Angelo Santino » Tue Dec 15, 2015 4:33 pm

B. wrote:As for Cosa Nostra... you're 100% right that "La Cosa Nostra" was never used by the mob itself until the FBI and media influenced the newer generations of guys (who barely understood Italian) to start saying it. The same can't be said for "Cosa Nostra" without the "La", though. Rocco Scafidi's info says that when he was inducted around 1950 he was told by his superiors that the organization was "mafia", then after he was shelved and reinstated in 1961, they told him it was called "Cosa Nostra" now. On the phone taps where Scafidi and Frank Monte are talking, they also refer to it as Cosa Nostra. Valachi also claimed it was called Cosa Nostra.
Interesting. Do you have any more info on that?

Re: Caporegime vs. Capodecina

by Angelo Santino » Tue Dec 15, 2015 4:31 pm

Gentile as a soldier claimed to be a sostituto for Mangano's interest in the 1930's. He was either lying or it was an informal "watch my interests in this area" designated person depending on the circumstances. Gentile was never asked to attend general assembly meetings yet Traina did. Obviously he had a higher status. But what exactly has never been verified. The best we can say is that Traina was "probably" underboss.

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