Matthew Madonna and Steven Crea have won a hearing for a new trial

Post a reply

Confirmation code
Enter the code exactly as it appears. All letters are case insensitive.

BBCode is OFF
Smilies are OFF

Topic review
   

Expand view Topic review: Matthew Madonna and Steven Crea have won a hearing for a new trial

Re: Matthew Madonna and Steven Crea have won a hearing for a new trial

by Little_Al1991 » Tue May 10, 2022 2:54 pm

JeremyTheJew wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 6:26 pm Being given new trial is different then a appeal….

Appeals are done by judges
Trials are done by jurors which makes the inconsistency of the witnesses a valid issue with the primary guys in this case

Frank pasqua 3 at first said a completely different story of who hit meldish if I remembered right
I just cannot see Madonna and Crea walking out of federal prison as free men due to the aforementioned reasons

Re: Matthew Madonna and Steven Crea have won a hearing for a new trial

by CornerBoy » Tue May 10, 2022 2:04 pm

TSNYC wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 12:33 am
Little_Al1991 wrote: Sun May 08, 2022 8:25 am
Tonyd621 wrote: Sun May 08, 2022 8:05 am Dominic Crea is an attorney who is Steven Creas biological son working on his father's case? Do I have it right?
I think he is a paralegal and yes he is Crea’s son.
He’s an insurance broker in Westchester
i think also owns payroll company

Re: Matthew Madonna and Steven Crea have won a hearing for a new trial

by SonnyBlackstein » Tue May 10, 2022 10:06 am

nizarsoccer wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 8:16 am "So, before Judge Siebel sent the jury to make their decision, she gave them a special instruction, called the Pinkerton liability, so that even if they believed Crea didn’t have any involvement or knowledge about the murder of Michael Meldish, they could still find him guilty... Because if the jury believed he was a member of a “club” (or “enterprise,”) he “could have reasonably foreseen” – consulted his crystal ball – that somebody would have murdered Meldish."
Doesnt this mean every made guy in the family can be held accountable? Why stop at Crea?

Re: Matthew Madonna and Steven Crea have won a hearing for a new trial

by newera_212 » Tue May 10, 2022 8:23 am

What's crazy is that Pasqua told his Meldish story throughout his cooperation - and even after the trial's verdict - he still tells the same story publicly on a podcast.

Pasqua's father was first the trigger man, but then later it was downplayed to him just being at the scene/witnessing it. Both Pasqua's also helped set up Meldish with the fake heroin deal thing and were supposedly the reason why he was to be on the street in Throggs Neck that night (meeting up) - but Pasqua II was never charged with anything? Unless part of Pasqua III's cooperation agreement involved immunity for his father, shouldn't Pasqua II have been at the defendants table with these guys? If Pasqua III is telling the truth - which again, he continues to repeat his story to this day - than his Dad had just as big of a role in the conspiracy as everyone else who was charged

There's a lot going on with this case and I wasn't able to keep up with it all, but my understanding is that the government heard Pasqua III's story and recount of events and eventually said "okay, we believe some of that. We don't think you're a credible witness, and we don't believe 100% of your story, but we do believe the murder went as you described - except that you and your father were not there" - am I wrong on that or do I have it right?

I know the license plate and EZ Pass tracking, coupled with Londonio's phone calls, really do not look good - and all but put Londonio there that night. How do they know Caldwell was with him and pulled the trigger?

Re: Matthew Madonna and Steven Crea have won a hearing for a new trial

by TommyGambino » Tue May 10, 2022 7:56 am

JeremyTheJew wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 6:26 pm Being given new trial is different then a appeal….

Appeals are done by judges
Trials are done by jurors which makes the inconsistency of the witnesses a valid issue with the primary guys in this case

Frank pasqua 3 at first said a completely different story of who hit meldish if I remembered right
Yeah he said his dad did it 😂

Re: Matthew Madonna and Steven Crea have won a hearing for a new trial

by JeremyTheJew » Mon May 09, 2022 6:26 pm

Being given new trial is different then a appeal….

Appeals are done by judges
Trials are done by jurors which makes the inconsistency of the witnesses a valid issue with the primary guys in this case

Frank pasqua 3 at first said a completely different story of who hit meldish if I remembered right

Re: Matthew Madonna and Steven Crea have won a hearing for a new trial

by nizarsoccer » Mon May 09, 2022 5:22 pm

Little_Al1991 wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 4:12 pm
nizarsoccer wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 8:16 am
Tonyd621 wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 6:59 am
nizarsoccer wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 4:30 am They have Crea on the pinkerton library doctrine. It doesn't even matter if he even knew about the murder, he is still liable, so it's going to be tough for him either way.
What's the Pinkerton library doctrine?
Taken directly from the Guilt for the Guiltless book explaining it:

"So, before Judge Siebel sent the jury to make their decision, she gave them a special instruction, called the Pinkerton liability, so that even if they believed Crea didn’t have any involvement or knowledge about the murder of Michael Meldish, they could still find him guilty... Because if the jury believed he was a member of a “club” (or “enterprise,”) he “could have reasonably foreseen” – consulted his crystal ball – that somebody would have murdered Meldish." - Basically a participant in a conspiracy is still guilty of a crime that is committed to advance/benefit that conspiracy even if one of the participants had no knowledge/involvement in a particular crime committed by other participants in the overarching conspiracy. At least that's how I understand it.
Joseph DiNapoli, the Consigliere at the time, was very fortunate not to be hit with the Meldish murder charge
Yeah I don't get why DiNapoli wasn't indicted too since he was part of the administration. Wouldn't the same logic applied to Crea apply to him too? Not sure.

Re: Matthew Madonna and Steven Crea have won a hearing for a new trial

by Teflon Dom » Mon May 09, 2022 5:02 pm

nizarsoccer wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 8:16 am
Tonyd621 wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 6:59 am
nizarsoccer wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 4:30 am They have Crea on the pinkerton library doctrine. It doesn't even matter if he even knew about the murder, he is still liable, so it's going to be tough for him either way.
What's the Pinkerton library doctrine?
Taken directly from the Guilt for the Guiltless book explaining it:

"So, before Judge Siebel sent the jury to make their decision, she gave them a special instruction, called the Pinkerton liability, so that even if they believed Crea didn’t have any involvement or knowledge about the murder of Michael Meldish, they could still find him guilty... Because if the jury believed he was a member of a “club” (or “enterprise,”) he “could have reasonably foreseen” – consulted his crystal ball – that somebody would have murdered Meldish." - Basically a participant in a conspiracy is still guilty of a crime that is committed to advance/benefit that conspiracy even if one of the participants had no knowledge/involvement in a particular crime committed by other participants in the overarching conspiracy. At least that's how I understand it.
Basically had to stack the deck for themselves like when they created rico because the mob kept outsmarting them lol

Re: Matthew Madonna and Steven Crea have won a hearing for a new trial

by Little_Al1991 » Mon May 09, 2022 4:12 pm

nizarsoccer wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 8:16 am
Tonyd621 wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 6:59 am
nizarsoccer wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 4:30 am They have Crea on the pinkerton library doctrine. It doesn't even matter if he even knew about the murder, he is still liable, so it's going to be tough for him either way.
What's the Pinkerton library doctrine?
Taken directly from the Guilt for the Guiltless book explaining it:

"So, before Judge Siebel sent the jury to make their decision, she gave them a special instruction, called the Pinkerton liability, so that even if they believed Crea didn’t have any involvement or knowledge about the murder of Michael Meldish, they could still find him guilty... Because if the jury believed he was a member of a “club” (or “enterprise,”) he “could have reasonably foreseen” – consulted his crystal ball – that somebody would have murdered Meldish." - Basically a participant in a conspiracy is still guilty of a crime that is committed to advance/benefit that conspiracy even if one of the participants had no knowledge/involvement in a particular crime committed by other participants in the overarching conspiracy. At least that's how I understand it.
Joseph DiNapoli, the Consigliere at the time, was very fortunate not to be hit with the Meldish murder charge

Re: Matthew Madonna and Steven Crea have won a hearing for a new trial

by Wiseguy » Mon May 09, 2022 3:40 pm

nizarsoccer wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 8:16 amTaken directly from the Guilt for the Guiltless book explaining it:

"So, before Judge Siebel sent the jury to make their decision, she gave them a special instruction, called the Pinkerton liability, so that even if they believed Crea didn’t have any involvement or knowledge about the murder of Michael Meldish, they could still find him guilty... Because if the jury believed he was a member of a “club” (or “enterprise,”) he “could have reasonably foreseen” – consulted his crystal ball – that somebody would have murdered Meldish." - Basically a participant in a conspiracy is still guilty of a crime that is committed to advance/benefit that conspiracy even if one of the participants had no knowledge/involvement in a particular crime committed by other participants in the overarching conspiracy. At least that's how I understand it.
Works for me. That's essentially RICO anyway.

Re: Matthew Madonna and Steven Crea have won a hearing for a new trial

by funkster » Mon May 09, 2022 3:00 pm

The inconsistencies with Pennisi's testimony makes this intriguing, they won't be getting a new trial based on his god story. Not sure why everyone is making a big deal about that whole thing, a lot of old school Italians are very superstitious. Im not one of the JP haters, but he does tell conflicting stories about the life pretty often. Talks about certain rules being followed to a T then in other videos specifically telling stories about the same rules being broken.

Re: Matthew Madonna and Steven Crea have won a hearing for a new trial

by TommyGambino » Mon May 09, 2022 9:37 am

Amazed they were even convicted, embarrassing justice system

Re: Matthew Madonna and Steven Crea have won a hearing for a new trial

by nizarsoccer » Mon May 09, 2022 9:18 am

Tonyd621 wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 9:02 am
nizarsoccer wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 8:16 am
Tonyd621 wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 6:59 am
nizarsoccer wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 4:30 am They have Crea on the pinkerton library doctrine. It doesn't even matter if he even knew about the murder, he is still liable, so it's going to be tough for him either way.
What's the Pinkerton library doctrine?
Taken directly from the Guilt for the Guiltless book explaining it:

"So, before Judge Siebel sent the jury to make their decision, she gave them a special instruction, called the Pinkerton liability, so that even if they believed Crea didn’t have any involvement or knowledge about the murder of Michael Meldish, they could still find him guilty... Because if the jury believed he was a member of a “club” (or “enterprise,”) he “could have reasonably foreseen” – consulted his crystal ball – that somebody would have murdered Meldish." - Basically a participant in a conspiracy is still guilty of a crime that is committed to advance/benefit that conspiracy even if one of the participants had no knowledge/involvement in a particular crime committed by other participants in the overarching conspiracy. At least that's how I understand it.
So why didn't they use that Pinkerton Liability for other Luccheses then?
No idea. I guess there is limitations to it.

Re: Matthew Madonna and Steven Crea have won a hearing for a new trial

by Tonyd621 » Mon May 09, 2022 9:02 am

nizarsoccer wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 8:16 am
Tonyd621 wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 6:59 am
nizarsoccer wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 4:30 am They have Crea on the pinkerton library doctrine. It doesn't even matter if he even knew about the murder, he is still liable, so it's going to be tough for him either way.
What's the Pinkerton library doctrine?
Taken directly from the Guilt for the Guiltless book explaining it:

"So, before Judge Siebel sent the jury to make their decision, she gave them a special instruction, called the Pinkerton liability, so that even if they believed Crea didn’t have any involvement or knowledge about the murder of Michael Meldish, they could still find him guilty... Because if the jury believed he was a member of a “club” (or “enterprise,”) he “could have reasonably foreseen” – consulted his crystal ball – that somebody would have murdered Meldish." - Basically a participant in a conspiracy is still guilty of a crime that is committed to advance/benefit that conspiracy even if one of the participants had no knowledge/involvement in a particular crime committed by other participants in the overarching conspiracy. At least that's how I understand it.
So why didn't they use that Pinkerton Liability for other Luccheses then?

Re: Matthew Madonna and Steven Crea have won a hearing for a new trial

by nizarsoccer » Mon May 09, 2022 8:16 am

Tonyd621 wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 6:59 am
nizarsoccer wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 4:30 am They have Crea on the pinkerton library doctrine. It doesn't even matter if he even knew about the murder, he is still liable, so it's going to be tough for him either way.
What's the Pinkerton library doctrine?
Taken directly from the Guilt for the Guiltless book explaining it:

"So, before Judge Siebel sent the jury to make their decision, she gave them a special instruction, called the Pinkerton liability, so that even if they believed Crea didn’t have any involvement or knowledge about the murder of Michael Meldish, they could still find him guilty... Because if the jury believed he was a member of a “club” (or “enterprise,”) he “could have reasonably foreseen” – consulted his crystal ball – that somebody would have murdered Meldish." - Basically a participant in a conspiracy is still guilty of a crime that is committed to advance/benefit that conspiracy even if one of the participants had no knowledge/involvement in a particular crime committed by other participants in the overarching conspiracy. At least that's how I understand it.

Top