THE BLACK HAND FORUM

PolackTony wrote: ↑Wed Nov 20, 2024 12:02 pm

Ivan wrote: ↑Wed Nov 20, 2024 11:43 am

PolackTony wrote: ↑Wed Nov 20, 2024 11:32 am Just to note. People online have been calling Pietro LaBalestra a "Sicilian zip" for some years now, but he isn't Sicilian. He's from Mola di Bari.

Another thing you see is people who were born in Sicily but moved here when they were like three with their parents and are basically fully American being called "Zips."

"Zip" to my mind always meant "Sicilian deliberately imported to the USA to facilitate organized crime activity" but that might be too narrow given how it's apparently used more broadly now (by others, not me).

Yeah, "zip" in its strict sense really should denote guys who already had some affiliation with Cosa Nostra in Sicily before arriving in the US. And even the assumption that all of these types were "sent" or "imported" in a deliberate, instrumental fashion is overstated, as there were many of them who surely arrived in the US for various personal reasons as part of the "second wave" of Italian immigration. They navigated this dynamic, in part, via their ties to Cosa Nostra, but it wasn't like they were all called in to some backroom in Palermo and told "Pino, you're going to NYC; Mimmu, you're going to Chicago; Enzu, you're part of a batch of 5 zips requested in Philly. You all ship out tomorrow... ", or whatever (there are, I'm certain, people who really think things worked like this).

There were Sicilians with ties to Sicilian Cosa Nostra in Chicago when the height of the "zip" stuff was going on in NYC/NJ, we just know much less about what they were up to. There were also a bunch of other Sicilians who arrived in Chicago/IL in this period, some of whom we can presume had familial and social connections to people in the mafia network, though they weren't "zips" in any meaningful way. There's a continuum here, as, again, all of these things were embedded in a broader demographic and social context that doesn't reduce in any simple way to mafia stuff alone.

Importantly, there were also a bunch of guys from mainland southern Italy with ties to the "mafias" in those regions in Chicago during the same period. These organizations also intersected to some extent with Chicago LCN and with each other (I think it's also very much worth noting that these intersections were happening during a period where the leadership strata of these organizations back in Italy were, as recounted by pentiti like Leonardo Messina and others, coming to think of themselves as all manifestations of the same "thing"). It's now been 50-60 years with these ties taking root and evolving locally, so they are by now deeply embedded in the local OC landscape. These "second wave" families, while retaining close ties back to Italy in the age of the internet and cheap travel, are at the same time thoroughly Americanized by now and many have intermarried with longstanding "first Wave" Ital-Americans, including families with deep connection to the Chicago LCN network.

PolackTony wrote: ↑Wed Nov 20, 2024 2:15 pm It's more than I can get into now, but we've discussed this a bit on the board previously in relation to statements given to the authorities by pentiti Leonardo Messina and Gioacchino Pennino (as B and I have discussed also, Pennino was himself the nephew of Chicago boss Totó LoVerde). It wasn't just Platonic (though there is at least some deeper background to this, in that -- despite their significant differences as organizations and subcultures -- all historically saw themselves as "Honored Societies"), but rather the organizational coordination of the other "mafias" in the 1970s/80s under the aegis of Cosa Nostra and with close collaboration with elements of the state and the P2 renegade Masonic lodge.

Ivan wrote: ↑Wed Nov 20, 2024 1:21 pm

PolackTony wrote: ↑Wed Nov 20, 2024 12:02 pm Importantly, there were also a bunch of guys from mainland southern Italy with ties to the "mafias" in those regions in Chicago during the same period. These organizations also intersected to some extent with Chicago LCN and with each other (I think it's also very much worth noting that these intersections were happening during a period where the leadership strata of these organizations back in Italy were, as recounted by pentiti like Leonardo Messina and others, coming to think of themselves as all manifestations of the same "thing").

OK now this is interesting. Like the Comorra, Sicilian Cosa Nostra, 'Ndrangheta, American Cosa Nostra, etc. all started thinking themselves as manifestations of some kind of Platonic ideal or whatever of "southern Italian secret criminal society", am I interpreting what you're saying correctly?

Coloboy wrote: ↑Wed Nov 20, 2024 2:03 pm

Ivan wrote: ↑Wed Nov 20, 2024 1:21 pm

PolackTony wrote: ↑Wed Nov 20, 2024 12:02 pm Importantly, there were also a bunch of guys from mainland southern Italy with ties to the "mafias" in those regions in Chicago during the same period. These organizations also intersected to some extent with Chicago LCN and with each other (I think it's also very much worth noting that these intersections were happening during a period where the leadership strata of these organizations back in Italy were, as recounted by pentiti like Leonardo Messina and others, coming to think of themselves as all manifestations of the same "thing").

OK now this is interesting. Like the Comorra, Sicilian Cosa Nostra, 'Ndrangheta, American Cosa Nostra, etc. all started thinking themselves as manifestations of some kind of Platonic ideal or whatever of "southern Italian secret criminal society", am I interpreting what you're saying correctly?

Kind of reminds me of what happened with Luciano and the group in the early 30's with the formation of the commission. No more disparate sects. We are all "italian".

Ivan wrote: ↑Wed Nov 20, 2024 1:21 pm

PolackTony wrote: ↑Wed Nov 20, 2024 12:02 pm Importantly, there were also a bunch of guys from mainland southern Italy with ties to the "mafias" in those regions in Chicago during the same period. These organizations also intersected to some extent with Chicago LCN and with each other (I think it's also very much worth noting that these intersections were happening during a period where the leadership strata of these organizations back in Italy were, as recounted by pentiti like Leonardo Messina and others, coming to think of themselves as all manifestations of the same "thing").

OK now this is interesting. Like the Comorra, Sicilian Cosa Nostra, 'Ndrangheta, American Cosa Nostra, etc. all started thinking themselves as manifestations of some kind of Platonic ideal or whatever of "southern Italian secret criminal society", am I interpreting what you're saying correctly?

PolackTony wrote: ↑Wed Nov 20, 2024 12:02 pm Importantly, there were also a bunch of guys from mainland southern Italy with ties to the "mafias" in those regions in Chicago during the same period. These organizations also intersected to some extent with Chicago LCN and with each other (I think it's also very much worth noting that these intersections were happening during a period where the leadership strata of these organizations back in Italy were, as recounted by pentiti like Leonardo Messina and others, coming to think of themselves as all manifestations of the same "thing").

Ivan wrote: ↑Wed Nov 20, 2024 11:43 am

PolackTony wrote: ↑Wed Nov 20, 2024 11:32 am Just to note. People online have been calling Pietro LaBalestra a "Sicilian zip" for some years now, but he isn't Sicilian. He's from Mola di Bari.

Another thing you see is people who were born in Sicily but moved here when they were like three with their parents and are basically fully American being called "Zips."

"Zip" to my mind always meant "Sicilian deliberately imported to the USA to facilitate organized crime activity" but that might be too narrow given how it's apparently used more broadly now (by others, not me).

PolackTony wrote: ↑Wed Nov 20, 2024 11:32 am Just to note. People online have been calling Pietro LaBalestra a "Sicilian zip" for some years now, but he isn't Sicilian. He's from Mola di Bari.

NorthBuffalo wrote: ↑Wed Nov 20, 2024 9:12 am I think if Burnstein did half the research some of the guys on this board do, his scoops would be something. Why not write a deeper article on Caliendo of the Cicero crew being outed in witness protection in Kansas or this indictment of the son of a well-known sicilian mobster trading guns to a Colombian cartel. Look at guys like Rick Simon who are still in places of power in Chicago who had major mob connections for decades.

But hey...there's a photo of Gigi Rovito on Facebook again.

Cheech wrote: ↑Wed Nov 20, 2024 6:46 am So this guy Gigi is a made outfit member?

NorthBuffalo wrote: ↑Tue Nov 19, 2024 7:15 pm

PolackTony wrote: ↑Tue Nov 19, 2024 4:03 pm Thanks for the reminder on Rosemarie Lombardi. The 2021 Sun-Times article referenced above noted that her and her brother were listed as residing at their father's former residence in Bridgeview during the investigation into the tax breaks. When she ran for Addison mayor in 1997, it was noted that she worked for a major Loop law firm. Not sure which one, but good chance that she may have been the one with the pull to get favors from the Assessor's office.

Quite the character. As referenced in the Reader article above, she unsuccessfully attempted to sue the Addison PD for excessive force after they arrested her at her home on an outstanding warrant for failure to appear in court in 2000:
https://casetext.com/case/lombardi-v-range

Regarding Joe Lombardi being "deactivated". Recall also that when he was pinched for the 1993 juice loan case, this was an Infelise crew operation he was working with -- he was busted alongside Sarno, Cataudella, and Mike Castaldo. Whether he was chased by EP or just transferred, it would seem that by this time he was affiliated with Taylor St/Cicero, which of course makes sense given where he was from.

Castaldo was also EP - he became partners with Lombardi following the latter's blow up with Messino, who was Lombardi's original partner in the juice business. Per Fosco, Lombardi and Messino were 'separated' and Lombardi put with Mike Castaldo, who was a major earner under Cerone/DiFronzo. I think this was a 'joint operation' as opposed to just Cicero.

The way the juice business was explained to me was that in the 1990s all of the various crews like EP and Cicero would use each other's enforcers to collect and that changed completely after the 1990s indictments. These were separate juice operations involving guys like Cataudella and Sarno who were being farmed out as enforcers and collectors to other crews. I think if you read those indictments, Castaldo was largely the one in charge.

PolackTony wrote: ↑Tue Nov 19, 2024 4:03 pm Thanks for the reminder on Rosemarie Lombardi. The 2021 Sun-Times article referenced above noted that her and her brother were listed as residing at their father's former residence in Bridgeview during the investigation into the tax breaks. When she ran for Addison mayor in 1997, it was noted that she worked for a major Loop law firm. Not sure which one, but good chance that she may have been the one with the pull to get favors from the Assessor's office.

Quite the character. As referenced in the Reader article above, she unsuccessfully attempted to sue the Addison PD for excessive force after they arrested her at her home on an outstanding warrant for failure to appear in court in 2000:
https://casetext.com/case/lombardi-v-range

Regarding Joe Lombardi being "deactivated". Recall also that when he was pinched for the 1993 juice loan case, this was an Infelise crew operation he was working with -- he was busted alongside Sarno, Cataudella, and Mike Castaldo. Whether he was chased by EP or just transferred, it would seem that by this time he was affiliated with Taylor St/Cicero, which of course makes sense given where he was from.