Gangland:12/10/15

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Re: Gangland:12/10/15

by Rocco » Wed Dec 16, 2015 5:07 pm

Rocco wrote:
Wiseguy wrote:
Rocco wrote:
SonnyBlackstein wrote:Love to read those transcripts of Madonna and Napoli.

Anyone know if theyre accessible?
They used to be on here. There are guys on here that save tons of posts. Ask guys like wiseguy or Chris Christie. I am sure they have it saved.
The original chart can be seen here.
http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2010/0 ... mbers.html


The affidavit, which I think you posted, Rocco, used to be in the RD forum. Well, there was a link to it anyway but I think it went dead a long time ago. I could try looking for it but it's probably tough to find. It was very interesting and an in depth look into the bookmaking business.
http://www.nj.gov/oag/newsreleases10/pr20100514a.html

That's the Fed 2010 indictment above however to be able to read the back and forth between Joe Perna on the car ride with Matty and Joe back to Long Branch after the making ceremony you have to find the 2007 NJ STATE Indictment since they were the ones actually doing the initial investigation and indictment. I cant find it anywhere.

2007 NJ indictment...its gone.. was on the right side of the page as a PDF. They removed it when the case was settled probably.
http://www.nj.gov/oag/newsreleases07/pr ... #complaint

If you go to the FBI FILE section. Scroll down to the bottom of pg26 you will see that john Perna and Joseph R Perna(Mikes kid) were made in 07 in Toms River. Joseph M Perna (Is Ralphs kid) who was indicted. MIkes kid who was made Joseph R Perna(Big Joe) was not indicted. And as far as I know he only has maybe one prior gambling arrest from like 15-20yrs ago. He was off the radar till this indictment of his Unlce Cousins

Re: Gangland:12/10/15

by B. » Wed Dec 16, 2015 1:15 am

People with integrity never have to say "that's a fact" or "I only share what I know" because they either have credibility or they don't and it's implied in what they say. If someone disagrees or proves them wrong, someone with integrity should be happy to open a discussion about it.

Picasso is a great example of why I never trust someone when they say that they only share info that they "know". Many so-called connected or street guys say this on the boards over the years. When they are proven wrong about something, they either pull some "I have my opinion, you have yours" bullshit or if they can get away with it they get indignant, like you'd have the audacity to question them because they're doing the world a favor . It was even worse with Picasso because his fans would act up on his behalf and he had complete immunity.

His lies didn't all go under the Picasso persona, either. He claimed that he was supposed to school Gambino associate Joseph Vollero on how to become a made member (supposedly Vollero had been proposed -- he was never made and later become an government witness himself). Yes, low-level Irish-American associate Lenehan claimed that he was supposed to school an Italian-American on how to be a made guy. You can see where that delusion would translate into the Picasso persona.

“He wasn’t made because he hadn’t established the needed mob political skills he need to navigate the induction process,” Lenehan said.
“Another year, two at most, I’d get him primed for the ‘jump,’ but I flipped.”

The fact is that Picasso is Steve Lenehan. That isn't up for any debate or discussion. The gray area is in whether you believe the stories Steve Lenehan has told under this persona over the years. Personally, I believe some of what he's said, as there is no doubt Lenehan was connected to the Newark underworld where Cosa Nostra members had a dominant presence. But it is impossible to fully trust a single word he says when those potentially truthful stories are buried beneath stories about being a third-generation member of the Genovese family with personal connections to Jerry Catena, Gyp DeCarlo, and Vito Genovese. Stories and info about infamous people and places from before he was even born.

But he didn't leave "Stevie" out of his fantasy stories. Nope. According to Picasso, Lenehan was among the most feared tough guys in Newark and on some nights, Pic would reflect on where "Stevie" went wrong and even once pondered that if Lenehan had been Italian and had the chance to be made, maybe he wouldn't have flipped. It didn't stop at Steve Lenehan, though, as "Picasso" dragged Steve's father Bill into his stories, talking about how Bill Lenehan and other legitimate men from the neighborhood were part of a secret hit team for the Genovese family who had participated in some high-profile murders.

The question is, how can you trust that person to even tell you the time of day? You can't.

Re: Gangland:12/10/15

by Pogo The Clown » Tue Dec 15, 2015 9:35 pm

That and he is a pathological liar about himself and his experiences.


Pogo

Re: Gangland:12/10/15

by Wiseguy » Tue Dec 15, 2015 9:14 pm

Cheech wrote:
B. wrote:That's the thing... I am sure Big Stevie the Irish Meyer Lansky did know the Pernas to some degree as he says, but his grandiose lies have ruined his credibility.
I'm new there. A few months. I've went thru all his posts. He knows what he's talking about. Where he loses me is when he starts with how he was at sit down with cabert pee wee and tino and he calls Sally dogs and this and that. That's my perception but you guys all know him much longer.
That's just it. Pic knew he was talking about until he didn't know what he was talking about. In other words, he routinely went beyond the bounds of what he actually did know and presented it as fact. But back then he had so many on the RD eating out of his hand he couldn't help himself.

Re: Gangland:12/10/15

by Cheech » Tue Dec 15, 2015 7:01 pm

B. wrote:That's the thing... I am sure Big Stevie the Irish Meyer Lansky did know the Pernas to some degree as he says, but his grandiose lies have ruined his credibility.
I'm new there. A few months. I've went thru all his posts. He knows what he's talking about. Where he loses me is when he starts with how he was at sit down with cabert pee wee and tino and he calls Sally dogs and this and that. That's my perception but you guys all know him much longer.

Re: Gangland:12/10/15

by Chaps » Tue Dec 15, 2015 4:37 pm

Wiseguy wrote:
Rocco wrote:
Wiseguy wrote:
Rocco wrote:
SonnyBlackstein wrote:Love to read those transcripts of Madonna and Napoli.

Anyone know if theyre accessible?
They used to be on here. There are guys on here that save tons of posts. Ask guys like wiseguy or Chris Christie. I am sure they have it saved.
The original chart can be seen here.
http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2010/0 ... mbers.html


The affidavit, which I think you posted, Rocco, used to be in the RD forum. Well, there was a link to it anyway but I think it went dead a long time ago. I could try looking for it but it's probably tough to find. It was very interesting and an in depth look into the bookmaking business.
http://www.nj.gov/oag/newsreleases10/pr20100514a.html

That's the Fed 2010 indictment above however to be able to read the back and forth between Joe Perna on the car ride with Matty and Joe back to Long Branch after the making ceremony you have to find the 2007 NJ STATE Indictment since they were the ones actually doing the initial investigation and indictment. I cant find it anywhere.

2007 NJ indictment...its gone.. was on the right side of the page as a PDF. They removed it when the case was settled probably.
http://www.nj.gov/oag/newsreleases07/pr ... #complaint
The arrests happened in 2007. That's when that affidavit was released that had all the recorded conversations that gave an inn depth look at the bookmaking business - who handled what packages, betting limits set, wins or losses for the week, etc. The actual indictment came down in 2010.
I posted the affidavit in the FBI files section. It has the pertinent parts of the transcripts.

Re: Gangland:12/10/15

by Mukremin » Sun Dec 13, 2015 6:56 am

He was just paranoid, he was a sick and evil man. Bruno wasn't paranoid.

Re: Gangland:12/10/15

by Ivan » Sun Dec 13, 2015 6:26 am

B. wrote:His paranoia was based on all of the scheming that had happened during the previous two regimes
He'd have to be nuts to not be paranoid after all that shit.

Re: Gangland:12/10/15

by B. » Sat Dec 12, 2015 7:40 pm

Scarfo's "paranoia" had nothing to do with rats, though. His paranoia was based on all of the scheming that had happened during the previous two regimes, not to mention the fact that he was relying on his captains and soldier to report back to him and they were always coming up with new beefs on guys.

Re: Gangland:12/10/15

by phatmatress777 » Sat Dec 12, 2015 4:29 pm

I always forget previte was under merlino I thought he was done by the time they got in there


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Re: Gangland:12/10/15

by Snakes » Sat Dec 12, 2015 3:57 pm

Philly is lucky because Merlino's guys have proven to be fiercely loyal to each other. A less tight knit group may have lead to more guys flipping with potentially fatal results to the family's future.

Re: Gangland:12/10/15

by Pogo The Clown » Sat Dec 12, 2015 3:10 pm

Scarfo had Delgiorno, Nicky the Crow, Phil Leonetti, Gino Milano, Larry Merlino, George Freselone and Wayne Grande (he flipped in 1993). Stanfa had John Veasey, Biagio Adornetto, Rosario Bellochi and Sergio Battaglia.


Pogo

Re: Gangland:12/10/15

by Mukremin » Sat Dec 12, 2015 1:55 pm

Stanfa had the less right?

Scarfo had Nicky Crow and Delgiorno and who else?

Re: Gangland:12/10/15

by Pogo The Clown » Sat Dec 12, 2015 1:22 pm

It is pretty evenly distributed among the Scarfo, Stanfa and Natale-Merlino eras. During the Merlino era you had Natale, Previte, Caprio, Luisi and Tommy Scafidi all flip. They were the last group to flip. They haven't had a made member flip since 2000.


Pogo

Re: Gangland:12/10/15

by phatmatress777 » Sat Dec 12, 2015 1:11 pm

Pogo The Clown wrote:
JCB1977 wrote:I find this statement interesting:

"Given the history of the crime family he once headed — per capita the Philadelphia mob probably has more made members who turned government witness than any other organization — Scarfo's paranoia may be well founded."

Yeah they have had at least 18-19 made members flip. More than any other family.


Pogo
Most of those flips were during scarfos era? After the stanfa era and people like veasey I can't recall many snitches in philly....

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